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37 sats \ 6 replies \ @abetusk 4 Oct 2021
My feeling is that the topics should be "of interest" to Bitcoin and Lightning enthusiasts.
Putting it in this context means that the items don't necessarily need to be about Bitcoin or LIghtning but should be relevant or of interest to someone coming here for Bitcoin and Lightning news.
For example, links to math articles on the underpinnings of elliptic curve cryptography are probably in-scope as that math is heavily used for a variety of tasks in Bitcoin and Lightning. Articles about whether "Go(lang) needs more generics" are probably out of scope because it doesn't have a lot of overlap with the Bitcoin/Lightning community (though what do I know, maybe it would be relevant because some wallet was implemented in Go(lang) and generics make it better/more secure/shinier).
The idea of upvoting/tipping/boosting with real money is a good one but I would rather see another experiment be done, separate from this site, to see the viability of that more general idea rather than try to shoe horn it in this site. This site, to me, is very clearly devoted to Bitcoin and Lightning ("A place to talk about Bitcoin using Bitcoin").
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12 sats \ 5 replies \ @ThrillerX_ OP 4 Oct 2021
Great feedback. I think eventually will end up seeing people from all sorts on here. How do we keep it Bitcoin and Lightning only? No upvotes with sats is the only way now. Any other way to deter other topics?
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12 sats \ 4 replies \ @abetusk 4 Oct 2021
This is a treacherous road. SN is almost surely going to need moderation at some point, if it doesn't already. At the very least, this will require a "flag" option. I really like the upvoate/boost/tip = real money but I don't really know how downvotes should work, if at all.
Should downvotes go to a moderator or the site directly? It certainly shouldn't go to the poster because that creates a moral hazard.
I think flagging content and downvotes are probably a near necessity at some point. Flagging is "easy" in that this will alert @k00b or some other moderator (that is, as of yet, not a filled position?) to remove the post. I think downvotes are probably also a necessity but I don't have a clear picture on how it should work.
Somewhat related, I think also posting some type of guidelines on content and how people should act on the site should be created now/soon. I created an issue but for an example, you can see one that HN has.
Also, just spit balling, but Stack Overflow was just a Q&A site for computer programming and then branched out into other areas (computer science, biology, politics, etc.) under the "stackexchange" sites. If SN ever gets popular enough, this might be a good template (politics.stacker.news, computerscience.stacker.news, etc.). SO also has "Area 51" where people can upvote which topics to create a community for, and this might also be a template to figure out which topics are good to put in their own little community.
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2 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 4 Oct 2021
The way I'm thinking about this so far is that I want to minimize if not eliminate the need for centralized moderation.
- When we have subs they can have configurable Sybil Resistance, e.g. 1000+ sats to post/comment/upvote and maybe even 100000+ sats to join.
- Staking even larger amounts to comment/post that are only returned if the post exceeds some number of upvotes
- Downvotes but where they are at least as expensive as upvotes and probably more expensive
Maybe this isn't enough but we are in new territory so the old rules don't necessarily apply. I'd prefer "market" solutions rather than "government" ones where possible.
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12 sats \ 2 replies \ @abetusk 4 Oct 2021
All these suggestions sound interesting if they can be implemented.
- Configurable post/comment/upvote and joining fees are certainly something to try. There might even be a facility to automatically set the post/comment/upvote cost based on activity. Maybe something like expected return of a "good" post/comment is the cost?
- I like the staking idea
- Having downvotes be more costly than upvotes seems like a good idea (HN doesn't even let you downvote until you reach a certain karma threshold) but I don't have any clear idea of what the ratio should be
I certainly don't have any big insight but I also would urge you not to shy away from "government" solutions if they work. Remember that the USA isn't a pure democracy, it's a representative democracy. Also know that you're basically the sites tiny dictator and there's danger in not acknowledging that fact. Everything is FOSS, so there's always the possibility of forking (especially if content is under a libre/free license), so it's much more "free" than something like HN, say.
Maybe this is heresy around here but the free hand of the market isn't some magical force that knows all. We're dealing with NP-complete problems and market solutions are traversing an energy landscape with local information, just like all natural/evolutionary algorithms. Put another way, setting up algorithms in the guise of market solutions is a form of government in it's own right.
There's no reason not to experiment with whatever you want, it's your site after all, but I would urge you to proceed with caution. This is a social site with humans interacting. Knowing a priori what "market" solution will work best for this community is probably pretty difficult. My opinion is that having moderators in place provides a known solution. The big novelty here, in terms of moderation, is that moderators can get paid which could help with burnout and actually incentivize folks to occupy that position.
I've mentioned this before but I'll reference Clay Shirky's "A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy" again. In particular, there are three items that I think are relevant from the "Three Things to Accept" section:
- You cannot completely separate the social from the technical
- There will be a core group of users that care about the integrity and success of the group and probably matter more than the uninvested user
- The core group has rights more than the average user
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32 sats \ 1 reply \ @ThrillerX_ OP 5 Oct 2021
I would like to add a counter to that if I may just to hear your explanation?
Why build SN at all? If were going to still require a centralized group of moderators making judgment calls based on an agreed set criteria that could be misinterpreted by random human error?
It would be basically Reddit with a tipping feature. I believe SN can be greater than just that. Not trying to sell the “government” idea short just not sure how to avoid it from becoming /bitcoin Which if I may add has become a terrible place to find news or insights on Bitcoin and Lightning over the years.
Curation incentives by individual Stakers makes more sense based on what you have outlined probably something that hasn’t been brought up yet that could satisfy both “government” and “market.”
Great discussion…btw.
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22 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTCLNAT 3 Oct 2024
HERE IS A GREAT ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.
AUTHOR: @DarthCoin
With your permission Darth
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4 sats \ 2 replies \ @jeff 4 Oct 2021 freebie
If the site focuses solely on Bitcoin, another site will pop up with the same mechanics but for other topics.
3 sats \ 0 replies \ @relc 4 Oct 2021
remembering altcoindiscussion on bitcointalk?
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2 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 4 Oct 2021
I for one would enjoy some sort of subreddit functionality....
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTCLNAT 3 Oct 2024
Bitcoin and its environment should be the main topic on SN, but everything is related to Bitcoin. Moreover, the Bitcoin community is made up of intelligent people, although according to the Basic Laws of Stupidity, we cannot underestimate the number of stupid people who can be in the community, since in every environment there are stupid people, but apart from them, intelligent people feed on the spiritual and all the territories of the site in some way contribute to this end. Someone told me that if I only knew about medicine, I didn't know about medicine; the same with Bitcoin.
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