222 sats \ 6 replies \ @frostdragon 9 Nov 2023 \ on: EU to ban end to end encryption tech
This is a misleading title.
First off - You physically cannot ban E2EE anymore than you can ban math, because that's what cryptography is - a math equation.
There's HTTPS, and there's E2EE. HTTPS is a protocol which does encrypt traffic, and it relies on a trusted third party, called a certificate authority (CA) to ensure the integrity of the encryption as well as the identity of the party you're intending to exchange data with.
If I'm understanding this correctly, Article 45 is an attempt for the government to force browsers to unconditionally accept CAs that have been approved by the government's arbitrary standards. This means HTTPS security could be weakened, and the worst case is they could implement back doors.
That's an incredibly ridiculous and horrible idea, but it doesn't have anything to do with E2EE.
With E2EE, the data you're transmitting is encrypted BEFORE it gets sent via HTTPS, or any other protocol, and it isn't decrypted until it reaches the other end. In other words, you can typically use E2EE w/ a completely insecure channel. E2EE makes eavesdropping impossible.
At the end of the day, even if the government forced you to trust it's certificates for protocols like HTTPS, and they had some kind of backdoor to monitor the data you're transmitting, you can still use an app (like signal) that encrypts your before it goes through channels controlled by third parties and be just fine.
TL;DR - this is a bad thing they're trying to do, but it doesn't even come close to being an E2EE ban.
You physically cannot ban E2EE anymore than you can ban math, because that's what cryptography is - a math equation.
...and marijuana, opium, and cocaine are just plants.
Of course you can ban E2EE! Government simply declares it illegal, and throws people caught using it in jail. That doesn't mean every single usage of E2EE will be stopped. But a hell of a lot of it will.
Especially these days now that most phones are already so locked down that average users can't install their own apps. With an E2EE ban, you can guarantee that Google will be told to lock down Android too.
The phrase "it's just math" is particularly ridiculous, because E2EE is math that you can't reasonably do without the use of a computer... and governments absolutely can control computing. Fact is IC manufacturing is inherently centralized because of the truly enormous amount of infrastructure necessary to do it.
The solution is to fight these battles politically. Don't get complacent and assume "the market will fix this" or "bitcoin will fix this". Fight. Now.
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The solution is to fight these battles politically. Don't get complacent and assume "the market will fix this" or "bitcoin will fix this". Fight. Now.
This is a nice example of the "disengage from the system" strategy being really flawed. Interacting in the political arena is the opposite of fun or sexy; but for stuff like this, especially, it's consequential. Perhaps on generational timescales the technological force latent in the world will be too strong to resist, and politics will give way, as with the printing press.
But on the timescale of a human life, plain vanilla political pressure gives high leverage. Ceding control of the political arena means it takes an extra decade or two to unwind stupidity that affects hundreds of millions of people. Bad ROI.
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I'm starting to agree. This might have the be settled in the streets
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Again, this isn’t even relevant in the first place because it’s not happening.
I’m sorry, but this is just kind of an ignorant argument. It’s ridiculous to say “you’re not allowed to perform a math equation in your code”. All of cyber security relies on that - you wouldn’t just be giving a data to the government, you’d be giving it to everyone.
If you're talking forcing all electronic data transmission to flow through government controlled channels, surely you can see why that’s as infeasible as hacking bitcoin.
Bitcoin works because it’s internet money, and the internet is irreversible decentralized information. There’s no going back on that.
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exactly!
Fight or silently let friends and family move off controlled messaging app and convince them to use SimpleX chat. Once people understand the power in it, they too will help spread the message. A bit like Bitcoin.
FOSS will continue to exists the same way government try to stop Bitcoin.
But we need to let people know about it in an peaceful, kind and self-sovereign way, letting the government and lobby talk about banning FOSS in an empty void.
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The solution is to fight these battles politically.
So... I'm inside EU, and I see what people from the '68 generation - did to the quite beautiful initial EU concept.
I'm not young enough to wait and see when (and if) all these dumb socialists/marxists finally lose the power in EU (or die).
See you some day in Salvador, then
(or Argentina?)
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