In my case, it didn't solve the problem completely, but I do notice that I am more willing to give without expecting anything in return. What is your opinion on this matter ?
They say wealth has diminishing returns, i.e. past a certain point it doesn't make your life much better. So if bitcoin helps you build wealth, it can make you less greedy over time, because your needs are met and you're not as vehement about accumulating more. Instead, you may value other things more, like friendship, family etc.
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This is a really good point towards "fix the money, fix the world."
Fiat encourages consumption and suppresses saving, which pushes everyone in the direction of a greedy mindset, i.e. never having enough.
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This. Time is our most valuable asset as human. Health is the ultimate wealth! Spend is wisely!
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While I agree with most of the comments, I think there's another way to interpret the question that might be more interesting. Sure greed and avarice aren't going to disappear on a Bitcoin standard, but that isn't quite the same as saying the problems caused by them won't be fixed by Bitcoin.
The beautiful thing about markets is that they incentivize producing things that are valued by others. Even the greediest son of bitch has to provide value to other people in a market economy.
So, my reframing of this question is "Does Bitcoin incentivize the greedy and avaricious to provide value to others?"
On the surface the answer seems to be no. Bitcoin is a money, not an incentive structure (although it affects incentives). However, when we consider that Bitcoin undermines the fiat system and that the fiat system creates many of the perverse incentives that need to be fixed, I think we can say that Bitcoin at least will improve the problem of greed/avarice.
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I agree with your reframing of the question.
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Human nature will not change because of money.
Having said that, people who are in extreme poverty have more incentives for conflict, violence and basically fucking over their peers over any small piece of wealth. If we make a society where everyone is better off, we should see less of that.
But greed will never disappear.
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Human nature will not change because of money.
Is this really true? I think it is clear that the characteristics of money absolutely do change people's behavior through incentives. And consistent changes in behavior become habits, which in turn form character. Isn't that the same sense in which you refer to a change in "human nature"?
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I agree with you in that consistent behavior builds habit and character. That works on an individual level, and with a large system of incentives and some social rules, can also affect large chunks of society.
But when I talk about human nature here, I'm referring to the deep traits of humanity that repeatedly show back at all times in history. There was greed when Socrates was alive, there is greed to day and I forecast that there will be greed 2000 years in the future. And that will happen with greed, with love, with hate, with envy, ...
Not that what I think about the future of humanity matters much though, we won't be there to see it.
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Alright, in that sense. In other words, some people will choose greed even if they don't need to and aren't incentivized to do so.
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I would like to believe that the problem of greed can be solved, but I'm also not very hopeful.
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nope. bitcoin is better money, but its still money. human nature is to want more stuff. money is how you buy stuff.
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yeah we're still primal strategic chimps in our core.
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Nope. This is human nature.
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the problem of greed/avarice
Greed isn't a "problem". Greed is good.
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I mean it can be a problem in individual situations when others are harmed by it.
But it isn't a problem on a societal level. On societal level it keeps markets moving and more efficient and better resource allocation and therefore benefits everybody.
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I understand that we should have some greed, and that it helps us to evolve, but too much greed is very bad, in my opinion, of course
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I think it uses our greed in a good way, it turns it into a monetary network that benefit everyone instead of a small group
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Greed comes from ego, not from money you use. Money is just an instrument for trades.
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No. Human nature will never change but bitcoin does naturally incentivize long term thinking. It changes the cost of using violence to steal/coerce in such a way that incentivizes honest and peaceful exchange.
With some tools like time locks, multisig, and smart contracts, I think we can further protect ourselves from greed and the violation of our right to private property.
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No it increases greed, case in point - look at what Michael Saylor is doing buying Bitcoin
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That’s a good point, and it also highlights one of things that irks me about terming behavior as greedy or as avaricious - which is that we’re quick to frame others as suffering from it but never ourselves.
The truth is that we all act in self-interest, and in the vast majority of cases greed is not an objective or useful aspect of a given behavior. In addition, the negative effects are hard to identify, and the positive effects are usually completely ignored.
The takeaway? Act in your self interest, take care of those around you, and be careful about assessing greed in others.
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You probably think greed is a problem because traditionally, most systems become corrupted by greedy people.
Anything that can be corrupted will be. Simply because people are greedy and will corrupt something if it gives them an advantage.
Bitcoin works because people are greedy. It rewards selfish actors (like miners), and punishes selfless ones (like zero fee routing nodes). The difference is that Bitcoin is resistant to corruption, so it makes greed a positive trait rather than one that threatens the sanctity of the system.
Recognize that your own desire to "be less greedy" is actually a selfish desire. Maybe you want to feel more esteemed about yourself or you desire to be viewed as charitable by others. Both the desire to be greedy and the desire to eliminate your greed is rooted in ego.
Ego aside, you will see that without any greed, the individual would starve having given everything to beggars. In all things, moderation.
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Indeed, Bitcoin "uses" greed to operate as a network.
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I think it's important to distinguish between greed as a motivating force and greed as a destructive force. Greed can be a powerful motivator, driving individuals to achieve great things. However, when greed becomes excessive and unrestrained, it can lead to harmful behaviors.
You raise an interesting point about the role of greed in Bitcoin's success. It's true that people are naturally inclined to act in their own self-interest, and Bitcoin's design reflects this reality. Miners, for example, are incentivized to secure the network because they are rewarded with bitcoins for doing so. This selfish behavior, however, has the positive outcome of ensuring the network's integrity and stability.
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I guess my point is greed is ONLY a motivating force. It can motivate you to be destructive or productive depending on the incentives of the system which you operate. In this way, greed is a tool. Its not that being excessively greedy makes you destructive. It's that when a society allows destructive behaviors, greedy people will be destructive.
For example, Genghis Khan was greedy in his conquest of the ancient world. His greed was mostly destructive to civilization. But he operated in a system of warring states where there was no rule of law and thus nothing external to himself to direct his greed to productive uses.
If someone started doing what Genghis did today, they would likely be stopped very early in their career because we have systems that prevent theft, conquest, murder, etc.
But someone like Jeff Bezos, who is arguably just as greedy as Genghis can direct their greed towards means that are rewarded by the system in which they operate. Both Bezos and Genghis live like emperors because of their greed, but the system in which they operate allowed one's greed to make productivity, while the other system allowed one's greed to make destruction.
I think bitcoin is a system which funnels greed towards production.
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After that example of Genghis Khan and Bezos, I was speechless. Good answer 👍
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As long as we look outside for answers, solutions and stagnant truths we will always be disappointed. Bitcoin takes work which is a dynamic routine of cultivation. Greed can be observed inside and outside. Ego is just a tool to let you know which face to put the sandwich in.
If we see harm then we can stop our own harmful behavior but we can not stop someone else's except in defense. There's a certain point where my behavior can become better and that reflects on the world a positive way. As above so below and vise versa.
Sometimes I think someone is greedy for hoarding but that person also has resources available when people who lack the skills or desire to plan need them. It's all about what I think of me and how I judge that I want to be like you. Or how I judge not to be like you.
Governments are created to convince people that other people can control people. By mind control they can but it's limited and it's used to bring out the worst of people so that government can continue.
I like the basic idea of Bitcoin. When we fuck this up we'll move on to something else. In the mean time the closer we get to unwritten law the better our outcomes will be.
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I agree with overall message. We should not expect others to solve our problems for us. We need to take responsibility for our own lives and work to create a better world.
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I dont think bitcoin changes greed. Just internet native money where people that add value cant be robbed by people that dont add value.
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No, in short it enhances it for self-centered and short-sighted individuals
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Obviously so. The "problem" of greed is the problem of mimetic conflict when the same real world good is desired, and its hoarding leading to scarcity of that which must be consumed. The "hoarding" of bitcoin increases abundance in the world and attempts to build scarcity in the physical world are an extremely risky short position. Anytime you exit bitcoin, if you do not increase the net value in the world faster than the world is growing, you will end up with less bitcoin.
Anyone who says ,hUmAn NaTURe dOesn'T cHaNGe in response to this question has achieved peak midwittery since there are very obviously complex dynamics that emerge from the greed function in ways that are highly divergent depending on the soundness of money.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
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I'll check it out later. Thanks.
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The pessimist in me wants to say no, that humans are naturally greedy this way... but I think Bitcoin might have a chance.
Where does greed come from? Every dollar printed devalues all previous work performed to earn that dollar. A 38k salary in 1984 buys what a 120k salary buys today. There is a cost to living and it is rising. There is this pressure to earn more now, and spend it now, because it won't be worth as much tomorrow. Greed comes from rotting currency.
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