Hey folks! I'm working to bridge social & financial networks with our lightning network explorer, Amboss.Space. I studied Environmental Engineering, worked odd jobs from class action lawsuits to transportation, and now get to work on the cutting edge of lightning. Ask me anything you want!
What's something you believe about Lightning's future that few other Bitcoiners agree with you on?
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Lightning Labs is doing really good things to help build the network. They're not even paying me to say this. I think building for apps enables the ecosystem to grow in a healthy way.
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How big is the team at Amboss?
As a company what do you see as your biggest challenge?
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We hired our first two employees in April, bringing us to a total team of 4. We're tiny, but the investors that we've taken on have been very supportive to help us think through the obstacles that we'll face in the future.
As a company (and this will probably apply to all early lightning businesses), we have to find the right balance between building products much earlier than they are needed (or profitable) and being prepared for big competition that will soon arrive.
I'd expect that VISA, Paypal, Meta and others will enter the lightning space and be extremely well capitalized to build some incredible products, much faster than we'd be able to. But, we're a team of bitcoiners already that want a decentralized future and we've got a small headstart. We'll have to be strategic and innovative to stay ahead.
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how many lightning liquidity marketplaces will be around in 10 years?
do you think it is a winner-take-all market?
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This is a really tough question. Our thinking is that this is user experience driven and by making liquidity as easy as possible to access (and access quickly) will be the biggest driver of marketshare. We also want to have the depth of liquidity and that's stemming from being interoperable across implementations.
There's a few things that we're optimizing for with Magma: Speed, User Experience, and Reliability. It may not the cheapest place to get liquidity or the most on-chain efficient, so users that want to optimize for those qualities will likely choose other options. But lightning network operator time is precious and probably the dominant cost of running a routing node.
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Appreciate the thoughtful response!
What was the biggest lesson you've learned so far since Magma's launch?
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I've learned a lot!! Probably the biggest one is that the "inbound liquidity problem" isn't actually about liquidity being scarce. It's about how the network is communicating.
If liquidity was scarce, we'd see the yields from routing nodes explode higher. Instead, anyone that wants to get some inbound liquidity can quickly find someone that's selling it and buy a channel from them. With the network being so decentralized, the biggest needs are actually in coordination and communication.
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Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck, or 100 duck-sized horses?
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Sign me up for a boss battle with the horse-sized duck. Bring some good 8-bit theme songs.
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Have you all noticed any trends among the routing nodes that are most profitable? Does the Amboss team run profitable nodes themselves?
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We don't actually know who is a profitable node and who isn't. Even if someone told us how much profit they're making off their routing node, we can't know whether they are telling the truth. I've run a profitable node in the past using static fees, but now I see people using automation tools extensively to maximize their incomes based on data internal to an individual node. I'm watching the effect of Zero Fee Routing's management strategy really take off and inspire others to do the same. With zero routing fees, we're seeing more people choose to frontload their routing earnings through channel sales on Magma, which is something that we can verify. 2+% APY is pretty good and that's before any income that they'd make from actually routing!
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Wat is the businessmodel of Amboss? Will this be mainly ads and a commissions on channel sales. Or do you also look at a subscription model or something like that?
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Amboss is a data analytics company that helps lightning network operators make good decisions about how they operate. When choosing whom to open a channel to, users come to Amboss to help make their decision. Users that join Prime (our subscription product) will be able to see more data (historical) as well as access services to help them market their node as a great node to connect to. These are services that we're happy to provide to our users as customers.
I don't see advertising as a long term revenue model for us because it turns our users into the product. Lightning network users generally want to escape surveillance capitalism and furthering advertising as a business model would conflict with some of the core desires of the network.
Our liquidity marketplace, Magma, currently earns a bit off of commissions and we're openly exploring how best to price the matchmaking service we provide.
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  1. What represent for your Lightning Network? a - a new banking system b - just a payment system for Bitcoin c - a much more complex financial system (that we still didn't know / discover it) d - a failed experiment e - an incentive system on the Bitcoin Network
  2. Which scenario you prefer for LN? a - millions of small decentralized routing nodes, but not so powerful and basic knowledge of managing by operators b - some thousands of strong big routing nodes, connecting billions of private node wallets and providing good liquidity c - just a couple of hundreds of big farm nodes, concentrating all LN traffic from many different decentralized apps
  3. Do you see in 10 years from now Bitcoin as main currency used in the whole world?
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  1. Lightning Network is a complex beast of a financial system and we're only scratching the surface of what it could turn into. On the one hand, it's a very inexpensive payment network, but on the other hand it's a censorship-resistant social network operating a moral economy based on associations.
  2. I think this will be a progression and we'll get to see close to all three options. I think my happy place is B with a good number of knowledgeable operators that can provide decentralized services to the masses. Seeing the market size for payment processors and the low barrier to entry means that we'll see a lot of competition for being a good payment processor, a decentralizing force.
  3. 10 years would be amazing, but I'm not sure the world is ready for it yet. I'm bullish, but as a globe, we've got a lot of homework to do first. "A VPN? What's that?"
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I like these questions, pls answer
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What does the feature road-map look like for amboss? Will we be looking at liquidity swap collaboration tool like LN+? Excited to see what you guys have in-store!
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We're really interested in improving the liquidity tools available and collaborating with merchants and exchanges to design for their current and future needs.
Additionally, we're exploring what the data market will look like. Since lightning is private by design and we're all so curious what's happening on it, what will the effect be of sharing information and how will the incentives evolve?
We're trying out lots of different avenues since lightning has so much potential and just trying not to duplicate the efforts of other builders in the space.
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Just popping in to say hey to Jess!
Thinking about my Lightning Labs ‘Reckless’ t-shirt… what practices have you seen bitcoin plebs making that you would consider reckless in 2022?
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Speaking from personal experience: running a lightning node without a Uninterruptible Power Supply (UPS) is reckless. Even in the US, the electrical grid is pretty unreliable when it comes to delicate hobbyist hardware. A UPS is cheap insurance when it comes to protecting your sats!
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Facts! Lost a node due to a power outage very good advice
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Curious what specifically the UPS protects. Is it to avoid downtime? This question isnt necessarily directed at Mr. Jestopher :)
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The UPS protects against rapid shutdowns that may corrupt the SD card or SSD. If the database gets corrupted, your records about what money is yours versus your channel partner's will be ruined and could lead to loss of funds.
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I'm jumping back into building Amboss! Thanks so much for the great questions; this was fun!
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which mobile wallet do you use?
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Omg I use so many hahaha. For the most transactions, I probably use @lntxbot the most, but I really like bluewallet for when I'm out and about and Strike so I don't have to think about capital gains taxes in the US. I've used Zeus for when I need my node, but I will often switch to using Thunderhub via Tor mobile for the fully featured aspects.
Other wallets I use: Wallet of Satoshi Muun Phoenix (also good for out n about)
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Thanks for the response! @lntxbox from telegram, right?
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Exactly. I also import it into Bluewallet so I can have the nice UI for buying beers from Candle's lightning beer tap at lightning conferences :)
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What are the next things where bitcoin adoption can go forward and into the mainstrea in your opinion?
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While I'm at least a mostimalist if not a full-blown maximalist, I think people will want to see stablecoins on lightning, which essentially means a DEX based in bitcoin. The major driver in this will be the user experience. A key component in the user experience is how much prior knowledge is required and unfortunately that may mean that people will use fiat over the lightning network before they are comfortable with bitcoin itself.
Another driver is a mature market for the time-value of bitcoin. How much can people earn as yield by keeping their savings in bitcoin and using it on the lightning network? With negative interest rates in Europe and the developed world, I don't see people wanting to keep their funds in depreciating fiat assets with negative interest rates.
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Where do you see lightning and the industry that is growing around it in one year time?
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There's an immense amount of changes that will happen in the next year. From my perspective, I'd expect that we'll see the start of other assets on lightning and the industry scrambling to keep up with the adoption that could quickly follow.
I think lightning adoption will diverge somewhat from bitcoin adoption. We'll see people using the financial network in a separate fashion from using base layer bitcoin.
On a regulatory front, I'd expect that lightning will be a much bigger talking point as a tool for financial efficiency, stability, and inclusion.
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What have you enjoyed most about the whole process of building Amboss and Magma? How has your life changed since you made the leap?
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Going from working for someone else to being almost entirely self-directed was both the scariest and most rewarding transition by far. While I still feel impostor syndrome, just completing often very dumb tasks to build a business is giving me way more confidence. I also feel much more aligned. While working for someone else, lightning was a distraction, but it was too important to ignore, so now I get to focus on it full time.
My life got turned completely upside-down, but I'm free to be nomadic while working harder than I've ever worked and feeling good about it. Also, explaining what I do for work to normal people is now a Herculean task.
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If I wanted to better understand the power of The lightning network, or magma specifically, where is a good place to start?
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Just being on Stacker.News is a great way to get exposure to how powerful lightning network is...we're paying each other to make great content over the internet, independent of where we are on the globe or what borders are between us. Borderless, frictionless commerce with next to zero fees is a real game changer.
For comparison, take a look at the fees that VISA charges its merchants (who pass it onto their customers). Looking through the table of fees to merchants, I don't see a single option that is less than $0.10 plus a percentage fee (0.05% - 3.15%). On the consumer side, this debt is charged an additional ~10-25% interest for those that carry a balance.
For a merchant, there is only a choice between three providers: VISA, MasterCard, American Express. On Lightning, there are 16,000 possible providers that are competing to process your transactions. Currently, there are 46 offers on Magma alone that can provide the same payment processing service at an average price of 2.27% APR.
Lightning is an open market, traditional payment methods are closed markets running an oligopoly.
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what do you do when you are not actively involved in Amboss/LN?
how do you "disconnect" to enjoy other non-lightning related things?
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I play guitar and cello, take walks on trails, plan trips, and talk to strangers.
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amboss.space is awesome, big kudos for making LN better.
Do you think there is enough demand and user base to create a project related to the LN that can be bootstrapped?
I work for VC funded traditional startups and although we've been successful, doing well in YC and StartX, I am a bit tired of their business model: create something, make it viral, get bigger investors, and so on. So in my free time I do some hobby BTC/LN related projects.
Seems like a lot of projects are still in their infancy or discovery phase when it comes to LN (Amboss and stackernews being exceptions as they run smooth like butter with no bugs and very sleek UI/UX).
It seems that there is a lot of room for projects. If you have any ideas that can fill a promising gap that you can share I'd be happy to hear them!
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Thank you for the kind words! Lightning is extremely open for innovators and builders. A big barrier in adoption of lightning is the UI/UX with tons of promising projects already in existence. Just by being a user and providing feedback provides tremendous value. With your experience in startups, you may be able to help others that won't be as prepared when speaking with VCs. Translating what bitcoiners are working on to traditional investors is a really hard task, but those that can recognize the scale of the opportunity in lightning will benefit tremendously.
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That's true, the expertise from traditional industries could prove quite valuable. Thank you for your reply!
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Petrol or electric?
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Electric!
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Whats up Jestopher saw a little bit of your project recently and looked pretty cool I know alot of people are very excited and I am definitely intrigued myself! keep up the good work!
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Thanks for the encouragement!!
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What's the most surprising thing you've learned about Lightning after starting Amboss?
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The most surprising was probably how the view of the lightning network isn't uniform across the network. Everyone has their own perspective of the channels that exist and the nodes that are present.
Second to that, it's how brilliant the users are. We get to learn so much from all of the different approaches to lightning, fee management, making connections etc. The feedback that we receive is extremely valuable.
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Is Amboss basically Lightning Chainalysis run by the good guys?
Hi Jestopher, We have a node and use Thunderhub to open channels. The last time we attempted to open a few channels we were met with this error. Insufficiet Funds to create Channel. not enough witmess outputs to create funding transaction, need 0.015 BTC only have 0.00741699 BTC available. Which is strange as we have 4,778,780 in our BTC wallet and the Anchor icon in Thunderhub is purple which usually means that our node is ready to open channels. We were only trying to open a few 1.5 Million sat channels but no matter which node we attempted to open a channel with we always received that particular error message? Any ideas? Thank you.