self-custody is the best path for any user who really wants to know how bitcoin works. And yes, self-custody is for everyone. Let me explain why is for everyone. The first reason is the most powerful.

Look what Kraken CEO Jesse Powell told you:

Look what Bitfinex's non-financial advice:

It's clear, right? No need to explain what they say IMO

Please, please understand that the relationship between you and your interactions with the blockchain is through your private keys. If you don't have your private keys, someone else is borrowing you the entrance to your transactions.

The OP said:

Yes, I get that point. Many people feel safe in the hands of others...until they don't. How many centralized projects need to fuck up in the way to understand that altough you have your own access, you're just using someone else's access, the real user, not you. You're at best an observer, not an user.

And I get the point also here:

With bitcoin, we don't have these things and we don't need to because...we...have..to...control..our...own..keys.

You don't like to watch your own money? It's ok, then bitcoin is not for you. That's not a bad thing.

Bitcoin puts a real price on stupidity, which is a very good thing. If people are too stupid to self custody they will pay the price eventually.

not sure, but should be the ultimate goal for everyone, and the sooner you reach there the more free you are.

Bitkey will radically change this https://bitkey.build/sharing-our-recovery-design/

I will repeat this over and over: Bitcoin is not for the weak, only for the brave and knowledgeable.

Forget about dumb people that can't even save 12 fucking words. Those will get what they fucking deserve!

I have a hard time answering this question as well. But I do want to comment on your comment:

"as it deviates from the familiarity of the traditional fiat world."

The fiat system is not easy to use, and is full of risk. People have learned to use the fiat system. They can learn Bitcoin too. They just have no incentive to do so, when it's hardly used as a currency anywhere. It feels like extra work. They need to have a reason to put in that extra work. But it's really not hard. It just needs normalized, the way fiat is normalized.

Once I read here - Bitcoin is for everybody not for everyone

Most of us are already here and our mission to teach close friends and family

I answered no because I think realistically it will always be divided. My grand mother couldn't manage her own money without a (legal) supervision for her bank account because she was being abused by her nurse. I also knew someone who had to lived with his parents because his father had dementia and would lose $5000 in cash somewhere and wouldn't remember anything. I have known someone working at Sony who had half of his brain taken after surgery. His job was to improve the UX of remote controls for old people. I think the future of hardware wallets will take the same path to make it easier to use for everyone (e.g.: improve screen size, use high-contrast, etc). In some cultures it is the woman who manages the money and the man who works. So we may find disparities between those who are more inclined to the idea of self-custody and those who prefer to delegate the control of their money based on cultural differences.

I think there's always going to be people who (have to) rely on others for their security. Even if it's "please set up my self custody for me".

Not everyone will hold their own keys, but the vast majority of people would be able to self custody. With time it's only going to get easier and more secure, so I'm bullish we'll increase that number over time.

Motivated self sovereign individuals will self custody others won’t.

The tech and the tools are there for the majority of people who wish to take matters into their own hands.

But everything is not for everybody so custodial solutions that minimize rug risk will exist! Just like some people are eager to drive a car and others never learn and deal with the consequences of not knowing how to drive.

Yes, it's the best way to stay safe out here

For those who know little about self custody...

Private Key Control: Individuals store their private keys securely, often in hardware wallets, paper wallets, or encrypted digital storage.

Independence: Self-custody allows users to transact and manage their assets without needing to rely on third-party services.

Security Considerations: While self-custody provides greater control, it also places the responsibility of secure storage and backup of private keys entirely on the user. This means taking precautions against loss, theft, or unauthorized access to the private keys.

Not for me that is easily careless with stuff.

The best case scenario I can dream up is localism. Few known community members holding multisig keys for their local community and providing custody to the normies. If they cheat, local community can "touch them".

No. And not everybody can economically own and move an UTXO. But more self-custody is still needed. Way more.

I think its a good thing to get some individual responsibility back. It takes time to learn, and you really want to understand it well. Even if its the so called Uncle Jim taking care of the extended family. It would be a better world going back to a well connected family.

Unfortunately bitcoin self custody is complex and easy to mess up, even for seasoned bitcoiners (look at Luke Jr). It's not as simple as just memorizing 12 words. First of all, memorizing your seed is a horrible idea. Please don't do that. You will forget it! Second, it's where and how you store them, how you use them, how you transport them if needed. There are many variables. OPs mention of custody inducing anxiety is relevant. One mistake can cost you everything, and when it comes to self custody mistakes are simple to make. That can be motivation for education, but not everyone is built like that.

Self custody has to be backed by understanding of risk and the ability to take ownership and responsibility, which are characteristics of a mature individual. Most people are ignorant, they seek comfort and rely on custodial trust without understanding its implications, and not even caring about them. If you're not already inclined towards sovereignty, the biggest pro self custody lesson is to get burned badly by the custodian system, and then having the willingness to educate yourself on better alternatives.

This is a hard point to grasp but in some cases it's probably not even recommended. It's just too complicated for some people. Old people, or people who are not tech savvy, won't be able to store their wealth securely by themselves. The lucky ones will have a knowledgeable good willing family member or close friend help them. To the not so lucky ones I wish them all the best.

There's also the whole KYC problem. We haven't even reached the point where self custody is banned yet. The "then they fight you" phase has barely scratched the surface. What will people do when the government knocks on their door with a 6102 order? Even the simple thought of something like that happening can throw people off. The threat of violence and people being compliant are big reasons why they won't choose self custody.

Nontheless, I think self custody will rise. I also think custodians will never go away. Both will exist.

Self custody is freedom, and freedom comes with responsibility and the need for understanding. Education and willingness to help are keys to a more sovereign society.

I'm still waiting for my slap from @DarthCoin :p

Yes and no. It is suitable for everyone (as in person) but not every entity as currently constructed. There is no way any large entity is going to undertake the legal liability of screwing up self custody. They would rather pay someone else to do it who they in turn can sue if they screw it up.

The way you have worded that, the answer has to be no.

Think of it this way - there is always trust involved. With the purest form of self custody it’s just that you are trusting yourself - not to lose it.

There is always going to be a trade off between risk of loss and risk of theft. If your risk of loss becomes too high from self custody, you’re better off trusting another party, which then unfortunately increases risk of theft.

Saylor has spoken well on this - in terms of thinking through an individual, a family, a community, a company, etc etc, and what might be right for each of them. There are always trade offs.

Eventually...yes, self custody is right for everyone

Custodial solutions are good for priming newcomers

But the end goal is doing away with custodianship -- and i dont care how delusional that sounds in primitive 2023 lol. They'll stick around like the library or the church does, but the monopoly is ending

It probably won't matter because having one's own UTXO is likely too expensive for everyone if bitcoin is widely adopted as money. Many people will have to live with custodial services before they can afford self-custody.

not for lightning node. fuck i've been trying to figure this garbage out for like a month.

Payments still don't go through but I can send money. I closed my channels and disconnected my peers and I think I lost all my sats doing that on the channels.

I see why there is an even split, it makes sense. For the majority self-custody is right. But I also understand where an elderly retiree could use some help. Sometimes they can't remember what they had for dinner last night (just look at your prez :-)) so companies like Fidelity (like them or not) can step in and be useful and accountable for 12 or 24 words safekeeping. There are certain things in life you can't do it alone, one needs some help sometimes.

I think YES, it's important to shift the current mentality.

But I also think self-custody should start simple for newcomers:

newcomers are scared if they need to learn and go through all the best pratices of self-custody in the first day or even in the first year

Not everyone can self custody. Much like how not everyone could safeguard their cash for banks to grow.

For bitcoin, I think it's quite important to be your own bank. But with the advent of fedimint, shared custody is what makes the most sense.

So not fully custodial. Baking instead, on members who do know how to self custody, to potentially take the burden of doing local community shared custody.