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Why all the UMA hate?
6303 sats \ 34 comments \ @lawndough 3 Dec 2023 bitcoin
My understanding is it’s a better way to to send payments in any currency to a receiver that can receive it in any currency. That seems like a win for the vast majority of people that are building global businesses and dealing with multiple currencies.
Despite that I know bitcoin is superior, I don’t need to force it on people who aren’t ready. Just let people decide what currency they want to use and eventually they’ll all be using bitcoin.
Just to be clear, I also disagree with KYC. I just see UMA as doing more good than bad.
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2062 sats \ 18 replies \ @TonyGiorgio 3 Dec 2023 freebie
Copy and pasted an existing spec (adding one or two little things) we've all been hard at work building for years and they called it their own. Notice how there's not a SINGLE fucking word about LNURL on their marketing site. They literally don't care about lightning or the open source community. The correct way to do this is to submit a PR into the spec. They've essentially gone hostile as far as I'm concerned.
If you disagree with KYC, you'll see their version is supposed to enable regulated surveillance through the use of VASP to VASP fincen requirements. This is likely why they didn't even bother trying to engage the open source community at all.
The cross currency compatibility is the least of anyone's concerns.
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220 sats \ 0 replies \ @doubleplusgood23 3 Dec 2023
I popped open their docs and they say they're an extension to LNURL right there https://docs.uma.me/uma-standard/introduction?language=python#uma-standard-overview
They also mention it upfront on their GitHub, even going as far as to say you should submit changes to LNURL as a LUD https://github.com/uma-universal-money-address
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21 sats \ 2 replies \ @nout 3 Dec 2023
First paragraph incorrect, second paragraph correct.
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44 sats \ 0 replies \ @TonyGiorgio 3 Dec 2023
Show me where it says LNURL here. I'll wait.
https://www.uma.me/
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @benthecarman 3 Dec 2023
where is the pr
https://github.com/lnurl/luds/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+sort%3Aupdated-desc
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11 sats \ 13 replies \ @lawndough OP 3 Dec 2023
Fair point on the spec. At least they kept it open source and it’s backwards compatible with non UMA Lightning addresses.
The KYC stuff sucks for sure… it’s just the next step for bringing Lightning payments to the masses. We need to meet them where they are and the vast majority of people are still making payments in their local currencies.
My opinions is, once they start using Lightning payments, it’s just a matter of time before they make the switch to sats.
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280 sats \ 12 replies \ @nerd2ninja 3 Dec 2023
So everything you like about this is actually called Bolt-12 (yes bolt-12 has a fiat currency field as part of the spec). All that Uma adds, is kyc.
There is absolutely no excuse. There is no "helping adoption". There is only you, all your information getting leaked from corporate server hacks, and the IRS meddling in African payment transfers. How does that last one work? It doesn't. Which is why they're unbanked in the first place.
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0 sats \ 11 replies \ @lawndough OP 3 Dec 2023
I found some info on it I don’t understand how bolt 12 could send fiat currency if a bank can’t be connected. For businesses that want to get paid in dollars via lightning network, they need the money to come in as dollars and I feel like only a bank connected to lightning can do that for them.
Is there more you can share about it?
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31 sats \ 0 replies \ @benthecarman 3 Dec 2023
Basically with bolt 12 you can ask for an invoice for $12 instead of 30k sats. You still send sats in the end, but the invoice request amount is in a different currency
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10 sats \ 2 replies \ @nikotsla 3 Dec 2023
if a bank can’t be connected
The main idea of BTC and all the tech on top of it is... to fuck the banks... so, why we need to connect to them?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @lawndough OP 3 Dec 2023
I agree for the long term. I just see UMA as a way for non-bitcoin businesses to start benefiting from faster, cheaper, cross-border payments. By using Lightning as the rails, it entrenches bitcoin so when fiat currencies do eventually lose favor, it should be a seamless transition to sats.
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110 sats \ 0 replies \ @nikotsla 3 Dec 2023
non-bitcoin businesses could start right now without UMA, and get faster, cheaper, cross-border payments, just use LNURL.
The business will have to do "a lot" of work anyway, UMA don't add value to them, just a bad blueprint to follow, but "they" don't touch anything. The rate, conversion and change from fiat to btc (in best case scenario) or shitcoins are in the business orbit, the business need to "compliance" to local authorities and be enabled to accept btc and change for fiat.
From my view, UMA it's just trying to size an opportunity without risk, follow my recipe (pay me) and I am clean.
I need to dig a little more into the infrastructure they are using, because seems a "private" network on top off lightning, their nodes router only kyc/compliance invoices, so if a normal node try to connect with them, it will be forbidden.
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0 sats \ 6 replies \ @nerd2ninja 3 Dec 2023 freebie
Have you heard of strike or CashApp? They both have this thing called "pay with lightning". Fiat to btc to send, payment app with connected bank account converts btc to fiat on the receive, but Fiat is only on the ends. Either end could not use Fiat at all. Its more interoperable that way.
And that's without Bolt-12
20 sats \ 6 replies \ @GlobalThreat 3 Dec 2023
UMA?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 3 Dec 2023
This was my reaction, too.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @lawndough OP 3 Dec 2023
https://www.uma.me/
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11 sats \ 2 replies \ @Zepasta 3 Dec 2023
they mention "crypto" 🚩
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4 sats \ 1 reply \ @lawndough OP 3 Dec 2023
That is a fact. Huge 🚩
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 3 Dec 2023
Yup, I’m out!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @KesterBils 3 Dec 2023
https://m.stacker.news/6589
This doesn't work for me at all... I'm all out.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @doubleplusgood23 3 Dec 2023
Huh, I hadn't heard of this before but this does look pretty cool OP, thanks for bringing it to my attention.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @phygit 3 Dec 2023
Not totally related to this interesting thread but, at the very least, I question the choice of the name UMA (conflicting with https://uma.xyz, in existence since 2020, oracle data on Ethereum).
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nikotsla 3 Dec 2023
Maybe they use the same blueprint:
  • White paper
  • A lot of marketing
  • No way to be profitable in the next 5 or 10 years (reach visa/mastercard level)
    • Pay integrator to use of the system
    • Pay regulators to make bills and enforce their rules
    • Income? sats per invoice routed?
  • Need "investors" to maintain the fake
  • Go burst.
I am not talking about ICO but... it's the same rhyme...
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @nikotsla 3 Dec 2023
I wrote in others post about it, my main issue is with the attitude (they have plenty as other user already show), they only sell a "framework", all the work is in the hand of the actors that use "their" framework. Fiat conversion, rates, kyc is on the hand of "other" people, UMA don't do a shit. And you know what the incentives are for actors to use that framework? $$$ :) fiat, it's not a superior tech, copy&paste common credit card flows on top of LN.
For me it's a marketing company, they are using all the tools available to pump shits, a lot of "paid" content, a lot of "paid" integrator, and catch phrases like "easy", "cheap", "decentralize", "compliance".
And if you flip and look from an enduser perspective... they never will know about LN or BTC, just a couple of input to send/receive money.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @KesterBils 3 Dec 2023
I don't trust anything that has a fiat underlining... Many people are gonna come up with protocols that are fiat-based but will look for ways to bring them into our ecosystem. All they have to do is say they're pushing adoption and we'll jump on it, even though I don't understand much about UMA, but it's nice we're having this conversation.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 3 Dec 2023
Did you ever read this?
https://i.postimg.cc/mD3tcqc9/abstract-btc.jpg
UMA is just a shitcoinery.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @nikotsla 3 Dec 2023
👆 this! "without financial institution"
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @faithandcredit 3 Dec 2023
This is mildly related. But why all the Udi hate?
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