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525 sats \ 10 replies \ @siggy47 7 Dec 2023 \ on: Are Territories Securities in the US? econ
Bitcoin isn't considered money in the U.S.
Not an issue.
Feels like a weak defense for #1 only.
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You can't get to #2 without #1.
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Right, but if its weak, then it could pass.
By the "its not money" argument, a company could IPO, using BTC as a numeraire, and it all be cool(?)
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I quickly answered you, but you have me thinking. Your specific IPO example couldn't fly, obviously, since you need to use dollars to bring an IPO. My instincts tell me territories would not be considered securities, but I can't articulate why off the top of my head. I need to do some research when I can get some time. It is an important question and I'm glad you asked it.
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can't articulate why off the top of my head
maybe because you don't want them to be? :) lol
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Could be. I hope not.
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I know that I tended to just dismiss the idea because it sounded ridiculous
but that's not how you're going to win in a court by saying something is "ridiculous", lol
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Right, it wouldn't fly on a regulated stock exchange in the US, cause dollars are the only unit of account supported.
But if I launched a website, registered a company, and then sold shares for BTC - that'd be a security. And it'd be a public offering too. I guess I was using "IPO" in the broadest sense of the word.
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I believe the OCC, FDIC, SEC, IRS, and whatever other agencies have differing definitions and bitcoin generally gets the least favorable interpretation in each circumstance. There appears to be no consensus, so I wouldn't consider this a black and white "it's not money so we're fine" issue. If it were this clear, the SEC could pack it up and go home, no?
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You're right. My initial gut reaction was premature. It would open a Pandora's box, though, for the government to try something. There are already international currency laws wherein nations respect each other's currencies. Nevertheless, the U.S. doesn't recognize bitcoin as a currency, despite El Salvador. I think an important reason is the IRS benefits from capital gains each time there's a bitcoin transaction. They don't want this challenged in court. They stand to lose a huge revenue source, and this also helps them to slow bitcoin adoption in the U.S.
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