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6823 sats \ 43 comments \ @Eobard 4 Jan bitcoin

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always amazed that ppl install every stuff that comes along their way on the first day - open or closed source. Take care

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 4 Jan

Yeah that's the mindset. Apple (and Google) have done a great job at making the App Store the "one click" place to go. So easy and simple with tap to install. It's sAfE bEcAuSe aPpLe rEvIeWs sUbMiSsIoNs.

185 sats \ 1 reply \ @fixthemoneyfixtheworld 4 Jan

I looked at this yesterday, and as you pointed out, there are so many red flags. I would not touch this wallet with a ten foot pole.

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @fishyness 4 Jan

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250 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 4 Jan

AQUA will be open-source. We just haven’t gotten around to it yet as the team has been slammed for the launch, squishing last minute bugs, and dealing with App Store approvals. Please bear with us! 🙏

-- https://nitter.net/Excellion/status/1742847525177131017

Why not be FOSS from the start? Build in the open and be honest that this is alpha software? Going from closed-source to open-source gets harder the longer you got comfortable being closed-source. There might be some reasons why it makes sense (from a business standpoint) to not be FOSS immediately but the ones I can think of aren't necessarily good ones.

Also, if the developer of a software says they currently don't open source it because they had to "squish last minute bugs", that doesn't sound like they are confident in their own code. So why should I trust their code?

So yeah, red flag imo.

And tbh, this tweet makes me interested in using their code to practice my reverse engineering skills to see what bugs they missed lol

31 sats \ 3 replies \ @Natalia 4 Jan

reverse engineering skills 👀 sounds really fun.

191 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 4 Jan

It's not necessarily fun though, lol

For example, I would say that most devs hate to read the code of other people and reading code is like 90% what you do as a dev. So devs realized that maybe, code readability is way more important than writing something clever you won't even understand yourself anymore next week.

Now imagine that code is obfuscated. This means the code itself is written on purpose in such a way that it's hard to read. There are tools which strip all information from the code which isn't necessary to run it. And probably tools that add "dead code" that never gets run but just exists to confuse reverse engineers and more obfuscation techniques.

That's what reverse engineering is like, lol

Not every code is obfuscated but closed-source code usually is to prevent reverse engineering.

Would already be interesting to see if they obfuscated their code.

51 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia 4 Jan

your reverse engineering is totally different than mine, the way how I normally use it is from the ideal situation I want then break it down into baby steps to what I need to do NOW 👀

This means the code itself is written on purpose in such a way that it's hard to read.

but why would they do that, preventing from stealing?

69 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 4 Jan

but why would they do that, preventing from stealing?

Yes, for example

2003 sats \ 5 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 4 Jan

I am using this wallet right now, it is much faster than the old Blockstream Aqua wallet. Looks slick, and can be used for Lightning payments now too. Congratulations team JAN3.

I don't buy these arguments. Lets not let perfect be the enemy of good.

Yes, we want Open Source wallets, but I have belief in the team at JAN3 that this will come in time. Getting a release ready and approved is difficult, and we should let them have some time to relax after their first shipped software. I run Bitcoin Core and Core Lightning built from source. I also think custodial and closed source platforms and apps like WoS have their place.

Many Bitcoiners have iphones, and use proprietary software and app stores. This is how people get their software. Yes, it sucks, but pointing at Github is no solution. Most of the world has no interest in github, they want to get a vetted app from a corporate App store. No app store, no users. Its not like this is a new trend.

Don't let the ideological view get in the way of pragmatic progress. This space is entirely voluntary, and lets reward innovation.

I see big things in future for Liquid and Lightning, and I am glad users now have additional tools in their toolkit.

31 sats \ 4 replies \ @Eobard OP 5 Jan

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1 sat \ 3 replies \ @justin_shocknet 5 Jan

Liquid is itself a shitcoin

501 sats \ 2 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 6 Jan

Lets not throw around the term shitcoin for Bitcoin related technologies.

What is the difference between a consensus compatible Liquid BTC on liquid sidechain vs sats stored in a Lightning Channel?

Both represent as frozen capital on mainnet until settlement (peg-out or channel close). How is a channel that much different than a federated peg-in addr?

Liquid records all transactions for all eternity, but it does it in such a way that masks balances. Liquid is more likely to adopt more experimental technologies for scaling.

Bitcoin needs to look at other scaling technologies for compacting tx data such as MimbleWimble -- This has been live on Litecoin without incident since May 2022. It would do the field well to understand progress in other Nakamoto clients. Shitcoins can be a petri dish of innovation. While protocol conservatism has worked out well for Bitcoin, we should not regress as technology improves.

Lightning does not record transactions beyond the peers involved in routing the transaction. Both have advantages and trade offs, but they are all sats.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 6 Jan

The peg is fictional in that it's still completely trusted. It's not Bitcoin, it's a derivative.

Lightning is literally still on-chain Bitcoin.

21M NGU is what matters, while some may be nice-to-haves, Bitcoin doesn't need any shitcoinery to scale.

501 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 7 Jan

You primary concern is the semi-trusted nature of the PoS federation. I don't think this makes it a shitcoin. Lightning Sats are also derivatives, as well as being on chain sats. I agree that trust is the differentiator, but I would argue that we utilize trusted custodial third parties right now -- SN or Wos for example. Liquid is more decentralized, as most LN capital is concentrated in custodial nodes.

In addition, Liquid has a different risk model than LN. On-chain Liquid sats cannot be moved by the network, federation, etc. Supports Cold keys. I really am arguing it has a place. It is way too reductive to claim Liquid Bitcoin is a shitcoin, this is a non-nuanced position.

L-BTC does not increase the supply of bitcoin, only the velocity. 21M NGU stands. Blockstream is further experimenting with transaction encodings that promote privacy: https://blog.blockstream.com/bulletproofs-a-step-towards-fully-anonymous-transactions-with-multiple-asset-types/ I see having a test bed for economical experimentation with sats like Liquid is a good thing.

You could make the argument that Liquid promotes people minting shitcoins -- yes, it has built into the protocol the ability to issue Liquid Assets, which could be shitcoins.

258 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 4 Jan

Yes this is everything that is wrong with the wallet and the approach they took. But I commend them for trying a solution that can meet the common person.

The hard core cypher punk would never use this but people who don’t care about how the liquidity layer is on they just want something that works and looks beautiful.

As a tester of some may things in bitcoin software land you come across a lot of broken shit and that I have lost sats on including:

-BlueWallet -Munity -fully loaded -10101

I know the risk so I take it as it comes but when I sent up people with blue wallet or breeze and they can’t accept my Lightning payment I look like the fool!

Like k00b always says make something that bitcoiners want. And I think this is Jan3 approach to meet that standard. But at the same time Bitcoiners have to be the immune system to make sure this does become FOSS and limit the dragnet surveillance we are all under now.

194 sats \ 0 replies \ @rblb 4 Jan

It seems that the release was rushed for the Jan3 meme, so it is understandable that the source is not available yet, it might be functioning but in a state that is not fit for being released publicly. I'd consider this an open beta.

The other points seem pretty weak to me, except 6)

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @GregAsks 5 Jan

AQUA Wallet = Shitcoin wallet.

End of topic for me.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @justBrian 4 Jan

Might as well be custodian, ill pass.

51 sats \ 0 replies \ @fishyness 4 Jan

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60 sats \ 1 reply \ @mango 4 Jan

Also the swap to L-btc when you want receive LN sats

Calling L-BTC layer 2 instead of side chain.

read thread

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eobard OP 4 Jan

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51 sats \ 4 replies \ @0xIlmari 4 Jan

Looks like another Exodus-like shitwallet. I'm sure it'll find customers though.

Can you really trust that big-tech isn't adding trackers or shady code to the app from their app store?

Not trust, but you can verify the checksum of the binary downloaded from store vs one published on github to detect any tampering.

Auto-update feature of app stores is not only convenient, but also important from security standpoint.

Do you really feel comfortable big-tech telling the government that you own bitcoin and use a bitcoin wallet on your phone?

If you're not using something like Graphene or Calyx, they might be reporting everything installed on your device anyway, regardless of where it came from.

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 4 Jan

Auto-update feature of app stores is not only convenient, but also important from security standpoint.

Automatic updates can also backfire from a security standpoint though. Might be less of the case for something like a bitcoin hot wallet but in general, you don't want critical software to update automatically without you being there to test and verify that everything still works as expected.

While writing this, I noticed that bitcoin hot wallets might be considered critical software, too.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Eobard OP 4 Jan

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30 sats \ 1 reply \ @haimot 5 Jan

What's your experience with Bitcoin related apps on Graphene OS, I'm planning to move to GrapheneOS soon.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eobard OP 5 Jan

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50 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 4 Jan

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31 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 4 Jan

Closed source and Bitcoin is oxymoron. We all know: Don't trust, verify

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @phatom 4 Jan

When it support shitcoinery, I just don't like using it

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 4 Jan

The privacy policy was a red flag for me.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 4 Jan

I downloaded it this morning. Seems slow. I transferred in a couple thousand sats on lightning and liquid and it took longer than most other wallet apps to generate the invoice. I do like the simplicity of it and that it has bitcoin, lightning and liquid all in one but as the original poster said why make it open source after the fact?

12 sats \ 0 replies \ @pako 5 Jan

It's closed source

That's all I need to know, I don't really care about the rest, I'm not putting my money in a wallet where I can't see were the holes are.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @4DChess 4 Jan

Is GitHub better than the App Stores? Aren’t they capable of the same things?

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 4 Jan

Checked it out and don’t plan on using it. Good post. 🤙

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @iguano 4 Jan

For the same reasons you listed, we should stop recommending wallets like WoS around here. At least we are getting serious about open source and custodial stuff.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @BitByBit21 4 Jan

Samson is spending too much time around authoritarian heads of state 🚩

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SovranSystems 4 Jan

Top notch insight!!!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @boisechampion 4 Jan

Does this bring up concerns for Jade?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 4 Jan

Aqua was previously developed by Blockstream, but it is now being developed by JAN3 team. Its nothing to do with the Blockstream Jade.

Samson Mow is the CEO, he left Blockstream to found JAN3 in 2022.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @faithandcredit 4 Jan

Thanks for the laugh. But it seems most things not liked about AQUA is just the cost of doing business in this day and age.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @gatsby 4 Jan

username checks out

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gatsby 4 Jan freebie

thanks for this