I am Pavol Rusnak, Co-Founder of SatoshiLabs. AMA 🚀 \ stacker news ~bitcoin

I am Pavol Rusnak, Co-Founder of SatoshiLabs. AMA 🚀

43.7k sats \ 66 comments \ @stick 22 Jun 2022 bitcoin

Hello everyone! I am Pavol Rusnak (@pavolrusnak), also known as Stick in the community.

I am the Co-Founder of SatoshiLabs Group - a group of companies that share a common vision: "Strengthening the power and independence of an individual".

The SatoshiLabs Group consists of:

Trezor, the company that created the first hardware wallet
Tropic Square, the company developing the first open-source secure chip
Invity, the company that will introduce a million new people to Bitcoin
and two other efforts that are currently in stealth mode and have not yet been officially announced ...

In addition to working on open-source software and hardware projects at SatoshiLabs, I also love contributing to other open-source projects, such as Bitcoin Core and NixOS+Nixpkgs+Nix-Bitcoin, and collaborating with artists on new media art projects.

I will be answering the questions starting at 10am CT / 3pm UTC / 5pm CEST.

Topics we can talk about, but of course feel free to ask anything:

Bitcoin
Lightning
Hardware and Software Wallets
Open-Source Software and Hardware
Open Standards (BIPs/SLIPs)
NixOS, Nixpkgs, Nix-Bitcoin
Privacy
Hacker Culture
Cognitive Science

LET'S GO! 🚀

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170 sats \ 8 replies \ @Jel 22 Jun 2022

Lightning has in my opinion a better user experience then on chain payments. In most cases the fee is lower and the payments are almost instant settled. One of the downsides of lightning, a specially compered to on chain, is the security.

Do you think the security of lightning will increase to a level where it will become more common to also use lightning for storage? Or even to use lightning to make some profit form stored bitcoin (stored in channels) in a safe way?

Are you working on security products for lightning?

303 sats \ 7 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

We are currently working on a concept that will bring a "send-only" LN channels to Trezor. That way, you can have a LN channel fully protected by a hardware wallet but at the same time completely secure while being offline.

110 sats \ 1 reply \ @Jel 22 Jun 2022

Will this be a channel that you can have next to other LN channels? So that you can also have a ‘hot’ LN channel to receive payments and make small transactions.

Are this ‘send-only’ channels meant to be build in to existing LN clients or will this require a special app?

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

This will be implemented in Trezor and Trezor Suite first.

But since our implementation will be open-source as always, any LN client could integrate this if they want and other HW wallets might pick-up the idea as well.

110 sats \ 2 replies \ @kr 22 Jun 2022

whoa, need to learn more about this concept.

can you elaborate or share any blog posts that explain how send-only LN channels work?

will users still need to operate a lightning node for send-only LN channels to work?

122 sats \ 1 reply \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

There is nothing to share yet, because this is still a work in progress. But essentially Trezor acts like a LN node which never receives a payment. I promise to share more once we have more details.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 22 Jun 2022

can’t wait to see the product launch announcement on stacker news when it’s ready!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @om 22 Jun 2022

So the idea is that if you never receive on a channel then you don't need a watchtower, right?

Could this be used without internet access but having network connection to the recipient (assuming the recipient is the other end of the channel of course)?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

Yeah, right, you don't need a watchtower while being offline.

could this be used without internet access but having network connection to the recipient

That's the general idea, but we need to examine this further, whether there are some issues with that.

131 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr 22 Jun 2022

what lightning network use cases are you most optimistic about?

131 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022 freebie

I'm especially excited about use cases that haven't really manifested yet. Recurring payments, microtransactions, machine-to-machine payments, etc.

Already I'm very optimistic that people already use LN payments to transfer value between peers instead of fiat.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 22 Jun 2022

What are the top 3 things you'd recommend someone do to increase their privacy?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

use pseudonymous identities, each used for different purposes
don't use social networks that track you on the web, or at least use browsers that block tracking
check out the great privacy guides by Sun Knudsen

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 22 Jun 2022

What is the most promising solution for privacy onchain? Do you see any notable/exciting cryptography developments that could be applied?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

It's much easier to achieve privacy on L2 and there are interesting projects doing this already: Liquid Network, Fedimint/Minimint to name a few. Also Lightning Network can act as a privacy layer too.

I am not 100% convinced yet it's worth complicating Bitcoin L1 by introducing hard-core cryptography for this. Plus this space is already explored by Zcash and its Halo2 zero-knowledge-proofs.

Of course, there are coinjoins too and for that I find the WabiSabi method (implemented in the Wasabi Wallet 2.0) quite elegant.

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 22 Jun 2022

Do you have any generic advice for Bitcoin founders?

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

Always scratch your own itch - in another word, always try to solve the problem you have. There are lots of founders, who have a solution and are looking for a problem, or they are solving problem that it's not theirs. Everything else will come very naturally if you stick to this rule.

173 sats \ 5 replies \ @kr 22 Jun 2022

What is the biggest mistake you see people make when trying to secure their own Bitcoin?

122 sats \ 4 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022 freebie

The biggest mistake is keeping your Bitcoins with an exchange. NYK-NYC

When it comes to self-custody, some people don't pay enough attention when creating a recovery seed, or try to be creative ("I write the words in reverse order and completely forget about this a year later"). The same goes for passphrases, where people don't realize how crucial it is to remember them, and after some time they ask for the link to recover the passphrase.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kr 22 Jun 2022

what is the biggest roadblock holding people back from taking control of their keys today? what objections do potential customers have?

216 sats \ 2 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022 freebie

The biggest hurdle is convenience. People have gotten used to the idea that they don't have to be responsible for themselves because the state and the banks will take care of them. That's especially true in Europe.

For some people, it's scary as hell to be completely self-sovereign.

With Trezor, we try to make the experience of self-custody as convenient as possible, but for some, the paradigm shift is just too big to handle.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr 22 Jun 2022

do you see a future where everyone is self-sovereign? or will there always be a cohort that wants to pass on responsibility to third-parties?

222 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022 freebie

I think there will always be people who don't want to be completely self-sovereign. But at least they will have the option of handing over responsibility to a party they know personally.

LndHub, LNBank, Galoy and Fedimint are all examples of a project that is custodial but at least they can be deployed and managed by friends/people you trust.

122 sats \ 3 replies \ @ideasourcing 22 Jun 2022

Can you add a feature that if by say, year 2029, if no funds in the device move at all, then all the funds are to be sent to so and so person or heir of that person by a lawyer?

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 22 Jun 2022

+1 ... this is imho a big new space to explore. Every wallet should support something like this. I'd be willing to pay a small fee to have inheritance service.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

This could be implemented for example by Miniscript which is slowly making its way into Bitcoin. I suppose if there is enough demand for this, it will make its way into hardware wallets too.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @om 22 Jun 2022

Something like that is achievable with a presigned timelocked transaction, no lawyers involved. Of course the heir has to be able to publish a presigned transaction. The UI around all this could be better.

123 sats \ 1 reply \ @zl4pg900n 22 Jun 2022 freebie

I wonder what's your take on cryptocurrencies other than BTC.

2223 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

As a cypherpunk and cryptography nerd, I am watching the privacy coins space currently occupied by Monero and Zcash. Very interesting lessons can be learned from this. Maybe some of the findings can be applied later in the Bitcoin space (not necessarily in L1). That said, I have my holdings only in Bitcoin since these two are not a good store-of-value IMO. Everything else is just noise.

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @nout 22 Jun 2022

Are you considering Bitcoin only product? I know that there are currently hacky ways to sideload btc firmware into Trezors, but that's not what I mean - I mean truly end-to-end Bitcoin product.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

Plan is to improve the Trezor Suite so it will offer you the Bitcoin-only firmware at the beginning during the on-boarding. Otherwise everything else is set already and when you don't enable other coins (these are disabled by default), you'll never see anything else in the Suite.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 22 Jun 2022

That sounds great! I also can appreciate that there are market demands coming from shitcoins, but leading in the right direction is what will make you stand out! So I'm happy to hear that you are thinking in that direction.

73 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 22 Jun 2022

What's something you believe about Bitcoin that few people agree with you on?

258 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

If we want Bitcoin to succeed, we need to be nice and patient with newcomers, not toxic and arrogant.

There is always a way to express the same maximalist views in a polite way.

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 22 Jun 2022

IIRC there was early correspondence between Satoshi and Julian Assange, some comments made by Satoshi that Wikileaks shouldn't adopt bitcoin at that time because it would cause issues for the chain.

At the time it was stated as payments for whistleblowing, but my thinking is Assange meant to have an immutable source of binary information he could use for steganography, etc. The equivalent of everyone having the same copy of the Bible to use for ciphers etc..

What do you think of Bitcoin's potential role as a medium to resist tyranny and censorship?

41 sats \ 2 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

I think Bitcoin will definitely play a big role in the fight against tyranny and censorship. Alex Gladstein of Human Rights Foundation has shown many examples where Bitcoin can help, for example in Africa, but other countries have the same problems.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 23 Jun 2022

I'll be honest, I am wary of associations with the UN, but I do respect Gladstein in his ability to communicate the despotism problem and recently his ability to keep his cool in that Twitter spaces chat with the techie non-crypto guys who sent a letter to Congress.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 23 Jun 2022

Thank you for your reply.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @ideasourcing 22 Jun 2022

Do you conduct checks on your official resellers, whether they pass on the device as is to end users or they modify them? Because everyone advises to buy directly from manufacturer.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @nout 22 Jun 2022

You have been one of the OGs in the space, what is the most surprising development that you experienced over the years?

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

I guess everything was quite surprising for me when it happened for the first time.

FOMO driven bull-markets
exchanges hacked
crashes
block size wars
rage quits
emergence of layer 2 protocols

But then you'll get used to that particular thing and it won't surprise you anymore.

All these things make Bitcoin more and more resilient and anti-fragile!

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @zl4pg900n 22 Jun 2022 freebie

Thank you so much @stick for doing this. Some answers were incredibly eye-opening.

Another q: Are you worried at all about the fact that the majority of Bitcoin's hashing power has been in Bitmain's hands for years? All machines are naturally connected to the internet, so Bitmain could reach them at any point. Since the hardware is not transparent, we can't assume there are no remote control mechanisms. We can all agree that Bitmain would instantly chop off a branch under them if they ever used anything like this, but this could be exploited by a malicious employee for example.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

This is the issue our friends at Braiins are trying to solve with Braiins OS - an open-source firmware for the Bitcoin mining hardware. With this you can be sure your mining hardware is doing what it's supposed to do and nothing else.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @zl4pg900n 22 Jun 2022 freebie

Are you able to criticize Bitcoin at all? If yes, what are the worst flaws it has?

A follow-up question: Do you honestly think Bitcoin will survive on Pow? Let's say, in 20 years.

By the way, thanks for doing this. It's very cool.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

I can't think of any flaws at the moment. Maybe there are some trade-offs but these are there for very good reasons.

And yes, I do think Bitcoin will survive on PoW in 20 years.

100 sats \ 4 replies \ @zl4pg900n 22 Jun 2022 freebie

What's the best spot for safely storing my Trezor?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

If I answered this publicly it wouldn't be the best spot anymore :-)

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @zl4pg900n 22 Jun 2022 freebie

I was serious because I struggle to understand the self-custody approach.

Isn't it just foolish to think that one's wardrobe or one's mom's wardrobe is safer than a regular bank? And I don't mean just safe from burglars, but from "the state". Local authorities can walk into my house as easily as they can walk into a bank, and surely they'll get the seed. Transferring the trust to a third party seems way more secure and efficient than trying to handle any sort of wealth by myself.

What am I missing? I'd love to join the self-custody train, but I don't see any option for how to do it.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @om 22 Jun 2022

Here's a sample setup without Trezor. Learn your 12 words by heart. Boot a diskless machine from a Tails CD (not USB). Tails has Electrum out of the box but you have to enter your 12 words every time you boot. Power off the machine if anything moves around your door.

This does not have quite the security of Trezor though. Check out Glacier Protocol for ways to crank up paranoia.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

You can protect your Trezor with a PIN and a passphrase. Even if local authorities walk into your house and confiscate the device, they will not be able to confiscate the coins.

And for the backups - if you are not satisfied with a single recovery seed, you can use Shamir Backup where you split the recovery seeds into several pieces that can be hidden in several geographically separated locations. When your device is confiscated, you can recover your funds by going through these locations. (Shamir is m-of-n where you control the value of m and n).

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @andyleroy 22 Jun 2022

Thank you for making such a great product!

52 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

Thanks!

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @ideasourcing 22 Jun 2022

Hi, I'd made an ad on speculation for a Trezor Ad / Social Post / Banner at Point Of Sale, like 6 months ago, just wanted to share it, in case there is any offer like Buy1Get1

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022

That's a nice graphics! :-)

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 22 Jun 2022

What's most surprising thing you learned building Trezor?

ps I hadn't seen Invity until now - such a great idea.

143 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 22 Jun 2022 freebie

In hardware development, things you think are difficult usually turn out to be easy, and things you think are easy usually turn out to be difficult.
No matter how serious the thing you do, it's always about the friends you make along the way 😊.

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @om 22 Jun 2022

I love strengthening the power and independence of an individual. But there is an obvious problem: we're captured by criminal organizations commonly referred to as governments. How do you see our struggle in the near future against the gov's pushback (esp. in EU) and all that CBDC shit?

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @stick OP 23 Jun 2022

This is hard to predict as the outcome also depends on the individual countries' governments. However, I do feel this won't be an easy fight.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @KingZing 23 Jun 2022

Bitcoin core is almost a complete mystery to me.

I get most of the more innovation is happening on L2 in order to keep L1 more "pure", but if L2 like LN gets more centralized and there's more demand for L1 scaling and privacy, is there no concern that there will be conflict of interest between L1 and L2 devs?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @lipinip235 29 Jun 2022 freebie

What do you think the general public (long crypto owners and newcomers) can do, within a normal person's possibilities, to push for the adoption of bitcoin on day to day transactions? Which one do you think is the biggest corporate or government stopper in this regard? BTW, I'm a fan of Model T.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @xiphid 23 Jun 2022 freebie

Is the mobile app still coming? Will it have feature parity with desktop Suite or have a reduced featureset? Will it connect to custom electrum servers?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @xiphid 23 Jun 2022 freebie

What do you think about the combination of long term hodling, and the theoretical QC vulnerability of Taproot? With this in mind, will Taproot ever be made the default in the Suite client?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @xiphid 23 Jun 2022 freebie

What features and improvements will the Trezor model R have?