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Hi Stackers!
I'm Oscar Merry and I'm building Fountain Podcasts - a Podcasting 2.0 app that rewards both listeners and podcasters for the value they bring to the platform.
On Fountain you can:
  • EARN by listening to any of your favourite podcasts. Earn more by listening to promoted content, creating clips, liking clips and comments, and supporting podcasts.
  • CLIP the most valuable highlights from podcasts. Earn when other listeners like your clips.
  • SUPPORT your favourite podcasts. Interact with hosts, guests and listeners with Boosts and replies. Stream sats for every minute you listen and send value back.
I'd love to open a conversation about:
  • Podcasts
  • The Value for Value ethos
  • Incentives on tech platforms
  • Anything Fountain related
Thanks, Oscar.
How do you see the scaling of podcasting2.0 as it relates to keysend pubkeys? Will all podcasters need to run their own node / get their own pubkeys in order to join the network? Do you think that's scalable long term?
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Do you think of any use case for Lightning Addresses or another abstraction layer that could be used in the protocol?
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I think adding keysend support to the Lightning Address spec would be amazing - it would make adding people to your show / episode splits much easier than it currently is.
Right now on Fountain you can add people to splits either by their Fountain username or their pubkey - but it would be cool if you could use a Lightning Address from any platform.
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I think the most important thing for podcasters is choice and there needs to be both custodial and non-custodial options. Right now in my view there isn't a non-custodial option for podcasters that is easy enough for a mainstream audience that don't care about Bitcoin - but I think in the future this may change.
Ideally in the future most podcasters will onboard to a custodial podcaster wallet but then have the choice to move to non-custodial if they want to.
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Yo Oscar thanks for doing this AMA.
Do you think Fountain would ever consider adding a music catalog à la bandcamp?
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Yes potentially one day - but we have so much to do to improve the podcast experience first that I want to stay focussed on that. Audiobooks is another thing that might come a bit sooner - because it's more similar to podcasting and also less restrictive in terms of licensing.
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⚡️nice
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I'm excited to see the audiobook feature come to life. exciting times ahead for the fountain app
Is a desktop/web app version in the works?
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Yes we are working on a full web player - we have a basic version that let's you play episodes already (https://fountain.fm/show/P6XXuSPg6f2rj4ECB0fT) but full support with device sync / login / payments coming soon
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How is Fountain financially viable? I guess it won't be difficult to exploit it by running multiple instances 24/7?
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We fund the earnings rewards through these sources:
  • The fee we take from promotion budgets.
  • Our transaction fees.
  • Our podcaster wallet fees.
Bots / exploits are definitely something we're spending a lot of time on - but the more you contribute to the platform by creating clips, liking clips and comments, and supporting podcasts - the more you earn. Supporting podcasts specifically is something that's hard to fake because you have to send money to do it.
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When will we be able to send splits to lightning addresses?
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Hopefully soon - we need to extend the spec to support keysend which is not technically difficult it's just a matter of agreeing the format.
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Can you explain to us how split payments work? What Lightning implementation are you guys using for that to work?
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Splits are defined through the <podcast:value> tag that's defined in the new Podcasting 2.0 namespace - https://github.com/Podcastindex-org/podcast-namespace/blob/main/value/value.md
Any podcaster can put a value block in their RSS feed - either at the <channel> level for show splits or the <item> level for episode splits. The episode splits are definitely the most exciting as they allow podcasters to share sats with guests, producers, listeners, good causes etc.
A value block contains a list of recipients that look like this:
<podcast:valueRecipient name="[name of recipient(string)]" type="[address type(string)]" address="[the receiving address(string)]" customKey="[optional key to pass(mixed)]" customValue="[optional value to pass(mixed)]" split="[share count(int)]" fee=[true|false] />
We use LNPay (LND) to manage our Lightning node which adds additional features like webhooks and sub wallets - https://lnpay.co
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Thanks for the code
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What are some of the most relevant upcoming features?
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  • Core Listening Improvements - Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, Autoplay Queue, Better Filtering + Sorting, Skip Silences.
  • Better Search
  • LiveItem Support - Listen and Boost live streams of podcasts as they're being recorded.
  • Full Web Player
  • Faster Clip Transcription
  • Video Podcast Support
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Battery use reduction?
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I use Fountain on average an hour a day. Phone is showing that over the last 10 days Fountain has accounted for 46% of the battery activity. Next highest is at 10%. I second battery use reduction. ✌️
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Thank you for pointing this out....in checking my battery history ,,,,fountain is fourth on the list of high use, only google products top it
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What % of podcasts on Fountain are Bitcoin related vs not Bitcoin related?
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We're definitely seeing the largest adoption in terms of transaction volume with Bitcoin podcasts - the main reason for this is the onboarding challenge of getting people their first sats to experience the magic of sending a Boost.
Having said that - it's definitely starting to branch out - you can check out this list we put together of top supported shows that are not Bitcoin related from earlier in the year - https://explore.fountain.fm/blog/ten-eclectic-podcasts
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Do you have the fear that micro payments of a few sats will one day problamatic for clogging the network?
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No I don't because micropayments like these will be so valuable to so many companies that the incentive is there to fix whatever scaling issues we encounter.
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What other content types do you think Value 4 Value would work well in? Are there types of content you think won't work well with V4V?
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I think it would work incredibly well for music. Think about your favourite song - and think about a moment in your life when you were listening and it affected you profoundly - how much was that worth to you? (probably more than whatever Apple / Spotify streamed the artist).
I honestly think Value for Value can work for all content formats - the big thing is though that it's not necessarily a replacement for other monetisation methods - it just augments it - especially at this early stage.
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What kind of liquidity issues, if any, have you experienced while developing Fountain?
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A big issue has been podcasters setting up to receive sats to a personal node on something like Umbrel and then running out of inbound liquidity.
If the first time your listeners try boosting your show the payment fails because of a lack of liquidity it's a bad experience that really puts people off.
Even some of the more experienced bitcoin podcasts are constantly having issues with their nodes running out (I don't think they were expecting the volumes!)
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Do podcasters have the option to purchase channels from your node? Or what kind of solutions have you explored?
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How fat do you think the channels need to be?
What’s the future road map and is video steaming part of that?
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Yes!
  • Core Listening Improvements - Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, Autoplay Queue, Better Filtering + Sorting, Skip Silences.
  • Better Search
  • LiveItem Support - Listen and Boost live streams of podcasts as they're being recorded.
  • Full Web Player
  • Faster Clip Transcription
  • Video Podcast Support
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Really curious about video streaming considering the ability to fund hosting via the auto-split.
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Have you tried lightning.video?
Hi Oscar, thanks for doing this AMA!
  1. Fountain has had some battery usage problems earlier, can you explain what caused the app to use that much power?
  2. How did you get into Bitcoin?
  3. What are you most proud of with Fountain?
  4. Top 3 favourite podcasts right now to listen to on Fountain
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Any thoughts on podcasting 2.0 being built on Hive blockchain? #39012
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I think the Podping system is currently filling a need in the podcasting ecosystem which is the avoidance of constantly checking RSS feed URLs to see if they have updated.
Having said that there's no reason a system like this needs to run on a blockchain so I'm assuming that soon it will be replaced by something else.
If any Stackers are looking for a project this would be a great one to tackle!
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Hi Oscar, thanks for the great app. I love it. But i have one question thats on my mind. When i create a clip of a podcast, i am earning from the content that belongs to the podcast creater. Maybe you can create an option to split all earnings between the podcast creator and the clip creator?
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Currently the sats you send when you like a clip go to the Fountain user who created the clip.
Our rational with this was:
  1. We want Fountain users to earn for curating the best content.
  2. Podcasters get incredible value from people creating and sharing clips of their shows. Look at Joe Rogan and how he grew with clips.
  3. All the podcasters we spoke to support doing it this way.
Having said that - we are looking at ways where the podcaster can set the % split.
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387 sats \ 1 reply \ @Ge 27 Jun 2022
Fountain is sick I actually am about to set up a friend on all value 4 value services when I first heard the concept I really liked it. Being in the role your in now if i may ask how has your perception changed on everything compared to before fountain was formed are you more eye level with other builders or not much has changed? What is the best lesson that you have learned on your journey. Favorite btc book, and favorite none btc book that has helped you alot?
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Thanks for the kind words! 🙏
The biggest change in perception for me was around where the value of Podcasting 2.0 payments would sit. I originally thought all the value would sit with the podcasters because they are the ones getting paid + receiving feedback / questions / engagement from their audience. But actually there is incredible value to the listener as well because it gives you the feeling as you're listening that you can reach out to the host at any moment and connect with them + you know they'll probably read the message because there's a payment attached to it (if you send enough).
Best lesson - probably just to keep a dialogue with early users and listen to them and build what they want. Even though we could be getting to it a lot faster - we are slowly addressing all the issues / features people are requesting (CarPlay, AutoQueue, Performance, Skip Silences, LiveItem etc.)
Favourite BTC Book - The Bitcoin Standard Favourite Non-BTC Book - Nathaniel's Nutmeg- https://g.co/kgs/bRB3VJ
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Any contact with a16z recently lol?
Seems like Andreessen's in the market per his recent appearance on Tyler Cowen:
"What I’m hoping, and what we’re actually seeking at the firm, what we’re trying very hard to fund — I’m hoping, for example, for podcasts. I’m hoping five years from now, there will be these thriving Web3 podcast environments that will be open."
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247 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr 27 Jun 2022
Looks like there are 7,993 Lightning enabled podcasts today.
Do you have a rough idea of how many of those shows are actually earning sats on a daily/weekly basis?
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In the last 30 days we had 257 shows that earned through listener support on Fountain.
On of the biggest misconceptions for podcasters is that they just need to turn it on and the sats will start flowing. This is completely wrong - if you don't constantly ask your listeners to support they won't. There's a whole series of techniques you can use to increase the level of support for your show - I'd encourage anyone interested to check out the Value for Value Podcast which gives practical examples of how this is done - https://fountain.fm/show/bPuh1aiEX271WELOqf6q (support on Fountain if you found it valuable)
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What's something you believe about the future of Bitcoin that no one agrees with you on?
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I honestly don't think I have any contrarian beliefs when it comes to Bitcoin! Sorry for the cop out answer! 😅
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What are other fields that can be disrupted by the incentivation made possible with Lightning? What are other fields Fountain can grow into and innovate?
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I would say anything with "Free content" where the business is currently being driven by advertising revenue is a candidate to be disrupted by the incentives made possible with value4value. Some ideas:
  • YouTube
  • Search
  • Social Media
  • Waze
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If you could choose to get better at just one thing as a company, instantly, what would it be?
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probably communication - as everything we do involves the communication of ideas and if you over complicate the ideas everything downstream of that will become over complicated.
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Is there anything in particular you find difficult to communicate? What have you found that works to improve your team's communication?
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I found this tweet kind of interesting: https://twitter.com/nealkhosla/status/1540780350627930114.
Do you think we might be short-circuiting product market fit with our earning features?
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I think there's definitely potential that these type of earnings features can fool us into thinking we have product market fit when we don't. There has to be a sustainable model in the long term. You also have to have to get the earning amount right so that people aren't only using the product for the earnings, but instead would use the product anyway but the earnings make it a better experience.
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In the case of Fountain I think that the "fool you into thinking you have P/M Fit" risk is somewhat lower, since podcasting is already accepted as a thing that has good P/M fit :-)
I think Merry is right in saying that there needs to be some other reason that you would use the product, and the Value4Value component makes it a better experience.
Perhaps one area of low hanging fruit here is to search for other products with proven go to market models that could be enhanced with Value4Value? Thinking about it now, that's kind of what SN did - I come here for Bitcoin news, and the V4V enhances the experience.
Finding existing proven products that could be enhanced with V4V certainly seems simpler than figuring out entirely new products where value4value is a core part of the value prop.
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Im inclined to think that positioning it as "donate-as-you-earn " podcast platform is a much more attractive proposition to existing community on such as The Giving blockchain. You non.profit accepting crypto and donors already giving crypto. .So perhaps positioning as Podcasting 2.0 for non profit niche. where the intent is to "listen to give" more than to earn. That's what I see from where I'm sitting in Botswana.
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in value4value you acquire the content freely, you don't get charged. Therefore, if you don't have a way to contribute monetarily to the show, you could find other ways to contribute.
Time, talent, and treasure--the three pillars of value4value. I imagine many podcasts would find interest in the perspective of someone from Botswana. Especially where you can contribute unique and local information people don't otherwise see.
Consuming v4v podcasts requires no payment by any listener, therefore I don't quite understand a need or utility in a "non-profit niche".
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I agree that V4V enhances products, but that doesn't change the fact that traction is being gained through more than just the merit of the product absent earning.
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I don't know that value4value enhances products, but it changes the business model in ways that allows creators to push their projects in directions otherwise impossible when relying on advertiser funding. Self-censorship, native advertising, etc.
"traction" depends on many factors, merit only one not necessarily a dominant factor.
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Indeed. I need to think about this more.
For example it has become quite a big deal for me to be able to "boost" content that I like with something more concrete than just a like button (i.e. sats).
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It's also important to distinguish between v4v features and earning/airdrops/paying users. They are related for sure, but differ in an important way: for their earning features, both SN and Fountain are taking money we would otherwise keep/make and giving it back to users (for good reason but still). v4v IMO is a more "decentralized" thing, ie there isn't SN or Fountain as an intermediary.
IMO it's hard to say if even v4v, broadly as a category (including both SN and Fountain), has product-market-fit yet. I'd wager it doesn't.
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Continuing my thought from the previous comment earlier in this thread, but perhaps below this in your notifications feed, I want to address the idea of SN as v4v.
While I'm willing to accept some argument like, "Adam may have popularized v4v, but everyone can figure out for themselves what that business model means to them," any such conclusion should give serious consideration to how Adam Curry actually defines value4value, which he applies to his podcasts, not to other kinds of services. Not to do it justice, but v4v podcast requires the podcast not take ads, that they ask their audience to contribute what they valued their experience, and the podcast THANKS them for their contribution at some point in the show. I may have missed something, but I focus on these three. I mean that a podcast MUST have these three to fit within the paradigm of v4v, and missing any one of these three misses the mark.
Attempting to fit this paradigm around the context of this website, as I write this post, and look around the page to find where I could contribute, I don't immediately see anything. Not to say that you don't have some place where people can donate sats to the website, or that you don't have some place where you thank those who have contributed significantly, but you should likely have those things in an obvious link on every page of the site.
Please pardon my ranting on the subject in this thread, but I feel a deep passion for the idea of the v4v business model, and find it a worthwhile endeavor to apply it to other services. Good luck!
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Agreed @ it likely doesn't have fit as a category yet. Adoption still seems very niche. The business models are still also a bit opaque to me.
It's good to remind ourselves what the definition of v4v is: content is free, but users can send some value back to the creator if they so choose.
Is the writing between the lines here if enough users end up sending value back to creators, that should enable new business models that don't rely on advertising ? Or is it something else? How do we define success criteria for the P/M Fit of v4v?
In the words of the inventor of the term P/M Fit (Andy R): "What do you uniquely solve that people desperately want?"
We therefore need to define three things to answer the question "does v4v as a category have p/m fit":
1a. What problem does v4v solve? 1b. What makes the v4v solution to this problem unique? 2. Why do people desperately want the solution offered by v4v?
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You don't have to read between the lines, the first sentence says more than you probably realized.
"The Value for Value model was conceived by Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak."
They did this on their show, "No Agenda" which has run almost 15 years only on contributions from the audience. They make good money. They also put on a good show. It goes hand-in-hand.
Some people have the luxury to produce a podcast as a hobby, but a high quality product requires significant investment of time, talent, and treasure. Regarding product/market-fit, Podcasting 2.0 enables within the context of value4value data regarding when people boost. Of course in general, they can also tell you in the notes they write. "XYZ happened and I had to send you money."
I find it inappropriate attempting to define a p/m-fit for v4v as a model. Each podcast has it's own market-fit. v4v simply represents the methodology by which the podcast, if a commercial product, earns revenue.
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Thanks, very informative reply! I think you're spot on with I find it inappropriate attempting to define a p/m-fit for v4v as a model.. I think I agree, I'm typically good at coming with potential p/m-fit for ideas but I think you're right - each podcast has its own p/m-fit. V4V is just an alternative way of "keeping the lights on", so to speak.
You raise so many interesting points, and bring up in my mind te potential for Stacker.news to encourage some high quality, regular content based on the v4v model, but for the time being it seems mostly reddit-like with sats instead of votes, which I much prefer.
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Why have earnings stopped?
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How are you planning to get around the KYC policies for crypto transactions that are in place in many countries? We'd like to keep our earnings private, as crypto was actually designed.
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We plan to offer a non-custodial signup option at some point.
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How does that differ from the current in-app wallet? You're talking about getting a partnership with another platform or actually deploying a full-fledged wallet for Fountain?
In my case the app is not running smoothly. Sats keeps resetting to zero and not being added to the internal wallet. Only promoted clips/podcasts allow the sat counter to actually count. Normal podcasts not even show the counter at the top... I already talked to you in Twitter and even after the last update yesterday, things are not better. I'm on a Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge, therefore Android. I have cleared cache, data, logged out and back in, uninstalled and reinstalled and nothing fixes this. However I have friends telling me their app ía working kinda fine and some other s reporting problems like mines.
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Yeah I'm having similar issues. My sat counter will reset, hit a certain number then reset again and wallet will show nothing. I've also referred four friends for the 5x multiplier and it only worked the first day. After that, I've been earning sats at a rate similar to 1x.
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A AMA that is apparently only a AMAIROTAF. Ask Me Anything I'll Reply Only To A Few.
Sorry about the temperamental nature of earning over the last few days. We are still modifying our security checks to strike the right balance between preventing bots from earning and allowing genuine users to earn!
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I have also experienced this issue and am definitely not a bot! Is this maybe part of a feature that prevents people from stacking sats while not giving back?
When listening to a podcast ... is the text at the top "Earning 10 sats" supposed to mean that I should recieve 10 sats? Because my wallet does not recieve this in the end of the podcast.
I have also heard this confusion from several people.
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Yes. We've had some issues post launch with our bot detection systems throwing false positives.
We've now made some tweaks and you should be able to start earning again - let me know if not.
Also just as a reminder - you won't always earn and you can earn more by contributing to the platform by creating clips, liking clips and comments, and supporting podcasts.
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Are you planing to add more languages? Because it’s impossible to create clips from spanish podcasters. Love your app
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When will you fix your app so that listening to podcasts earns sats again instead of just counting up to 1 or 2 and then falling back to zero?
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Sorry about the temperamental nature of earning over the last few days. We are still modifying our security checks to strike the right balance between preventing bots from earning and allowing genuine users to earn!
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Hey Oscar,
Any job openings for front end at the moment or in the bear future? ;)
This post was featured on This Day in Stacker News as the top post of the day.
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Two days in a row!
This post was featured on This Day in Stacker News as the top post of the day.
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I really like the concept, and the app works great.
After I listened to a podcast I withdrew all the sats to test it, and it worked fine.
But after that it never gave me any more sats. In the listening tab it keeps counting sats up to say, 5 or 6, and then it goes to zero. No more sats are ever added to my wallet.
What can be the cause of this? and is it possible to fix it?
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Is there a document or page on your site that explains the sats/second or sats/minute earn rate for listeners? How is this earn rate determined?
Personally, I've referred 4 friends and gotten the 5x multiplier and at first I could see the rate increase accordingly. However, in the past few days, it seems to me as though the sats / second has dropped back down to 1x rate even though I still have the 5x multiplier on my account.
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Suppose I want people to listen to an article or a book chapter but I don't want to voice it myself. I guess the current best path is to rent someone's voice on microlancer or another platform like that and then broadcast the result on Fountain. But do you maybe have some plans to simplify all this and do it entirely on Fountain?
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I was not a podcast person, until your app made me one. It actually makes me enjoy going to gym, which is probably something I never expected.
I am wondering if it is possible to have internet radio as part of the app? I love radio paradise, high res music and podcast all in one app would be a killer.
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I love Fountain and I've been using it more often lately, thanks for your hard work.
This question on how earnings works was very insightful, and I have a follow-up question:
How did you guys bootstrap your business? Do you have investors? Are you at liberty to tell us who those investors are?
[EDIT: OK, that's 3 questions :)]
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Great podcasting 2.0 app
Recently started listening to fountain podcasts. Looking forward to your show
Thanks for your time doing this. Love the app and what your vision is but the battery draining issue needs addressing.
Fountain is changing everything. Video will be another step towards inclusivity and breaking the fourth wall. The audience and the content will all grow together as real value accrues!
Hey Oscar, do you think eventually this will turn into a video sharing platform as well?
Love the fountain product and was curious if the premium service will ever be available through sats earn through fountain itself ?
Fantastic idea and implementation so far.
As a new user to this app and a user of other podcasting apps for years previous, I can't help but notice that there are missing such as the ability to create a playlist of unlistened to downloaded shows. For me at least this is a very important feature.
I understand that features like this are not applicable to all, but it would be nice to have the option to line up a few shows for the commute and have them play automatically.
Thanks for the continued hard work
I talked to Support @fountain_app is like talking alone or to a machine. I was starting to love your app and promote it a lot with my 3 podcasts links on #fountainapp but the wallet froze, it's not working, and on my summary I had 16000 sats that never went to wallet. Very sad 😔
Is there a limit on how much you can earn on fountain?