Naivetes in Bitcoin \ stacker news ~bitcoin

6840 sats \ 60 comments \ @birdeye21 25 Jan bitcoin

What are some concepts or ideas that bitcoiners are typically naive to when first getting involved?

I’ll say for myself, I was naive to the voices in bitcoin. When I entered bitcoin, I started putting too much faith in all the various “influencers” and “thought leaders” than I should have. I too quickly assumed that anyone who had something to teach about bitcoin was somehow an authority I should be listening to. In reality, most of those I’d listen to before, I’ve done a complete 180 on. I probably wasted way too much time learning irrelevant bs from the wrong people..

The deeper you get involved with bitcoin, you start to see all of your idols fall, also including those “outside of” the bitcoin sphere..

I’m sure we’ve all had and all still have our own respective moments of naivete with bitcoin. What were yours?

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1396 sats \ 2 replies \ @beorange 25 Jan

That Bitcoin alone will solve all evils for our economic system. The truth is that bitcoin is an excellent tool, that if put to good use on the right places, will help us move in the right direction. But us as society will be the ones who will have to walk the walk.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

There is a delicate balance to be met because there truly is so much that bitcoin does fix, to the point that it's a meme. But it's so easy to take that and default to bitcoin as the solution to everything..especially when people can also ascribe fiat to so many problems in the world.

There are simply an overwhelming amount of problems in the world. Utopia is only a concept. If it's real then it's likely in the afterlife..

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 25 Jan

The way I look at it is that bitcoin fixes this is not wrong but also is to simple.

If bitcoin destroys fiat many things will no longer have the high time preference influence.

Removing fiat is like removing a contamination in your body. We are probably not even aware of all of to negative impacts of fiat. I suspect the affects will get worse before they get better.

So bitcoin doesn't fix everything as much as it replaces a destructive force in society and culture.

1077 sats \ 11 replies \ @siggy47 25 Jan

I experienced something similar when it came to "OG bitcoiners." I held them in reverence as wise old gurus. I eventually learned that some of them were not the sharpest knives in the drawer.

3954 sats \ 8 replies \ @Coyote_Cosmico 25 Jan freebie

I was first exposed to Bitcoin in late 2013 when I moved to Bali. Ubud at that time had the 2nd largest number of Bitcoin ATMs in the world, behind San Francisco! At least that was what I read, and it seemed to hold up because there were indeed lots of them, and most taxis and restaurants were accepting BTC as payment. It was quite a scene.

Anywhoo thinking back on the early adopter OGs I hung out with there, I've concluded that many were early to BTC not because they were ultra-prescient tech/ economic wizards, but more because they were societal dropouts and rebel hippie types. I don't say that with condescension, it was just a theme I observed.

An alternative financial system and dreams of a pleb revolution are very attractive ideas to certain edgy personalities, and the traits that got some of these folks so excited about Bitcoin when nobody else was paying attention also seem to manifest some other odd duck beliefs and behaviors.

It appears to me that there is a loose correlation between how early someone adopted BTC to how likely they are to hold some extreme and rigid ideologies, and to have a strong track record of wildly incorrect predictions.

There are plenty of exceptions to that generalization, and it makes the exceptions even more impressive. Some folks truly just "got it" and still very much get it.

It's just an interesting thing to think about, that to be a true OG in Bitcoin it required some blend of foresight, intelligence, naïveté, and weirdness - and many OG's are so heavy on a few of those measures that maybe best not to take them on as one's guru.

476 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 25 Jan

Interesting history. Thanks. I had no idea about the Bali scene. It would great if you could share a few stories from back then, without doxing yourself, of course.

834 sats \ 2 replies \ @Coyote_Cosmico 25 Jan

Ubud was just ground zero for the digital nomad movement back then and attracted a lot of bitcoiners who were recently balling out because it had mooned to ~$1k around Dec/Jan '13.

Hubud co-working space in particular was the spot, as internet was still incredibly slow across the entire island, except there. Pieter Levels was always working at the standing desk near the entrance building the early NomadList MVP, and there was a guy who would give an orange-pill Bitcoin presentation there every Thursday or Friday, it cost like $20 and you would leave it with a wallet and knowledge and the $20 equivalent in satoshis.

Unfortunately I never went to that presentation and I began to take BTC more seriously some years later, whoopsie.

There were a lot of middle aged programmer guys renting insane villas and throwing LSD fueled orgy parties, it was strange times.

As I mentioned almost every taxi in Ubud was accepting BTC -- I think that guy who was giving the presentations and his crew had orangepilled the whole taxi cartel and many of the cafes, restaurants, hotels etc.

It didn't last, as I believe a while later Indonesia passed a law either explicitly banning using crypto for these sort of transactions, or they said you could only transact with Rupiah.

I was coming and going from the island but just so happened to be in Bali during the height of 2 bullruns after that and it's been funny to see how things have evolved - from a real pure & punky counterculture ethos in 2013 led by gen Xers and older, to the much younger altcoin liquidity farming defi bros in the last go round.

147 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 25 Jan

Thanks. I really have a thing for bitcoin history. It's great to document memories like you did here.

81 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

Thank you for sharing all this :) great stories and great insights

72 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 26 Jan

An alternative financial system and dreams of a pleb revolution are very attractive ideas to certain edgy personalities, and the traits that got some of these folks so excited about Bitcoin when nobody else was paying attention also seem to manifest some other odd duck beliefs and behaviors.

This is an incredibly wise and provocative statement.

23 sats \ 2 replies \ @kdnolan 25 Jan

Was that the bit island project? What ever happened to that?

I'm in Bali right now, and there's not much on btcmap :(

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coyote_Cosmico 25 Jan

I think it's not legal to transact in Bitcoin there anymore

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @kdnolan 25 Jan

.gov attack :/

551 sats \ 1 reply \ @carlosfandango 25 Jan

Absolutely. Being first to something doesn’t make them right…..the early bird may catch the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 25 Jan

...and the second mouse said to the first, "nacho cheese"

734 sats \ 3 replies \ @freetx 25 Jan

Well...I'm very hesitant as I am to say this...but I suspect fiat / shitcoins will always exist and there will never be a bitcoin only world. In fact, it may necessary for shitcoins to exist....

There is historical proof of this: from 4000 BC until 1971 the world operated on a tri-metal standard: Gold, Silver, Copper. No central authority forced that, it was an emergent property of a complex society / economy. Basically this was a "hard-money, soft-money, shitcoin" scenario of the day.

Related, the phrase was "Gold is the currency of Kings, Silver of Gentlemen, and Copper of Peasants"....so in modern times I guess thats BTC, ETH, DOGE (although I'm not exactly sure ETH are gentlemen per se)

36 sats \ 2 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 25 Jan

The analogy doesn't work. If you shave gold to something the value of copper, it would be too delicate to physically hold and use as payment. Silver and copper is physically more practical for lower value payments. However, a $billion worth of bitcoin is just as easily transferable as a few satoshi. So there is no need for a different coin. No, I think shitcoins will wither and die.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 25 Jan

Yes you are right its not a perfect analogy. Having said that, when paper money appeared they "could've" denominated gold in micrograms on paper....but they didn't

The divisibility benefits of BTC aside, my point was mainly that "market forces" seem to demand the existence of shitcoins for whatever reason.

6 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

Yep. I think the reality here is that all investing/trading/gambling as there is today will continue to exist as it always has.

Nothing about bitcoin existing will stop people from investing capital into growing businesses.

Scammers will always be around to try and shitcoin you out of your bitcoin/hard assets. Always have been in tradfi, crypto didn't necessarily invent "shitcoining" as a concept.

Tradfi is also starting to become more and more synonymous with "shitcoining" since we have larry fink shilling the tokenization of everything. "Shitcoining" is likely going to become bigger than it ever has before.

The only difference on a Bitcoin standard will be a leveling of the playing field. A bitcoinized economy is more fair and more competitive. No more infinity dollars to prop up dying businesses, you either produce long term value or watch your valuation rug like a shitcoin. Market forces will sustain whoever is adding value

773 sats \ 2 replies \ @satoshiplanet 25 Jan

Thinking that everyone will adopt bitcoin, and yep... then you realize that most people feel safer walking with chains in a known direction than getting rid of them to glimpse new paths

285 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

the real hard landing is sadly probably what pushes everyone into hyperbitcoinization

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @satoshiplanet 25 Jan

Fully agree

846 sats \ 0 replies \ @Nuttall 25 Jan

I read about Bitcoin on Slashdot in 2012 or 2013. I downloaded Bitcoin core. Synchronized it after 3 or 4 days. I waited for the money to pile in. 😂

I gave up and went back to HFSP.

EVENTUALLY

I Started to read more in 2019 and 2020, and I realized that running a node was an avg of giving and also an act of self Sovereignty. I listened to a lot of influencers but I paid attention to those that discussed DIY. Do it yourself resonated with my 1980s punk ethos.

I had already loved the Linux world so Bitcoin became a FOSS extension. If course the greed factor played in and I had to let it go. Best to earn by skill than by luck.

Good question!

616 sats \ 2 replies \ @cryotosensei 25 Jan

Erm that my BTC portfolio would pump to at least $100k in Q4 2022

Don’t judge me!

28 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

lmfao yeah. The second peak...had me convinced were going there immediately

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 25 Jan

Never mind, trying to attain the Bitcoin Standard these days haha

474 sats \ 1 reply \ @398ja 25 Jan freebie

My sin was to believe that diversifying in alts will make me a multimillionaire... in fiat 🤭🤦😅

I have wasted valuable time and resources, looking for the ONE, to then realise I had it all the time, already since day one: bitcoin.

I finally ended up selling all my alts with 80-90% loss against bitcoin.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

many such cases

564 sats \ 2 replies \ @carlosfandango 25 Jan

Great discussion.

For me it is two things; Short term view - worrying about the day-to-day noise around Bitcoin and thinking it will affect the long term prospects (like looking at the molecular structure of water; you can guess it’s uses but it doesn’t tell you what the oceans are like) Over technical obsession - I don’t need to understand the code or minutae of Bitcoin to use and appreciate it (i don’t need to know the molecular structure of water to sail a boat on it).

Apologies if my analogy's miss their mark.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

u know how many influencers i've heard acting like the spot etf is the "make it or break it" moment for bitcoin

gtfoh....

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 25 Jan

One guy - small channel and BTc only - when he was jumping around about the incoming ETF God candle I knew he had been sipping the KoolAid… it must be a disease as it happens seemingly without warning.

563 sats \ 2 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 25 Jan

I've got to ask, with all that time identifying who the wrong people were, who did you come to find were the right people?

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

Ummm stackers duh!

130 sats \ 0 replies \ @ablunderfilledlife 25 Jan

Fine! Squander a perfectly good opportunity to flatter and inflate some very specific egos on here, and instead prop up the entire community.

https://m.stacker.news/13753

519 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheWildHustle 25 Jan

I was fascinated by yield seeking and couldnt imagine the exchanges blowing up or stealing my money.......Managed to escape Celsius and Blockfi in the nick of time.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

I got caught up in the lending too with a bit of my stack, both celsius and blockfi. So stupid.

I was instagone though the moment this article came out. Maybe 6 months later they all blew up..

https://m.stacker.news/13750

1053 sats \ 2 replies \ @DudeJLebowski 26 Jan

That Bitcoin is inevitable.

There's no belief which is more dangerous.

59 sats \ 1 reply \ @porterbitcoin 26 Jan

I mean, there does reach a point where the most likely failure modes are pretty fucking unlikely…

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DudeJLebowski 27 Jan

The problem is, that belief leads to complacency, and we're seeing the results of some of that now.

179 sats \ 0 replies \ @Entrep 26 Jan

I thought Bitcoin transaction fee were as low as 10 cents before I was in for a surprise

109 sats \ 1 reply \ @frostdragon 25 Jan freebie

"Bitcoin fixes everything"... I see it more like, bitcoin changes everything, and it's easy enough to see a lot of the pros right now, but we're not going to know what the cons are until we get there, and there are plenty of potential challenges about life on a bitcoin standard that should give us pause. I think bitcoin is inevitable either way, so we need to prepare, but first and foremost, bitcoin doesn't fix human nature. It may help mitigate it in some ways, but it also might open the door for flawed systems that we aren't aware of yet. We humans are great at finding flaws and exploiting them to our own detriment. Bitcoin doesn't fix that.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

Bitcoin changes everything...that i can get behind

66 sats \ 1 reply \ @frostdragon 25 Jan

"Bitcoin is [inherently] anonymous" - easy beginner mistake.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

yes. assuming privacy comes easily with bitcoin

54 sats \ 0 replies \ @lina87leary 25 Jan freebie

I got too involved in technical analysis terms and candlestick chart indicators, instead of seeing the bigger picture of supply vs demand, emotional buying, and the influence of unpredictable happenings on the market.

110 sats \ 3 replies \ @DmitriiLunin 26 Jan

My main naivety was that I thought it would be easy to join, but no, for two weeks now I'm still outside the bitcoin party (still no wallet and SATs). Subconsciously, and being technically savvy, I understand that I can figure it out, but now I'm interested in feeling like a "simple user" and what I'm seeing tells me that it will be tens of years before mass adoption occurs.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 26 Jan

Well u have at least 100 now!!

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @DmitriiLunin 26 Jan

Wow! I see, but what are the next steps? Some onboarding instructions would be cool to see)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 26 Jan

Stacker news FAQ. Can check it out here or scroll down to page footer and click faq. Any and all questions you may find answers to there!

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @03479d0ee6 25 Jan

Myself when i first got into bitcoin was believing in stock to flow price model like it was a fact. Another was that bitcoin was perfect, like all the technical decisions were right and good.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

now that you've learned that, it's much easier to identify grifters who all do that

34 sats \ 2 replies \ @kdnolan 25 Jan

When I first read the whitepaper in 2012.. I saw it as a potential form of UBI.

This was back when I naively thought .gov was there to help people.. my thinking was the government could just buy everyone a computer to mine - problem solved, inflation solves etc etc

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

it is amazing re reading the whitepaper and noticing the differences in your interpretation of things nowadays lol

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @kdnolan 25 Jan

Yeah it's incredible really lol

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @southside263 26 Jan

bitfluencers don’t know shit about the bitcore core or Lightning.

bitcoin DGAF about your “idealology”

bitcoin is a tool and means different things to people.

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @alin 25 Jan

I was naive in 2011 when it was $2 and a friend that was buying stuff from SR told me about it. I didn't care.

Then in 2017 I was all about ICO's trying to get rich :))

Then in 2021 I was into NFTs :))

Only last year after I discovered Matthew Kratter's yt channel did I understand what it's all about 😁

Any minute now my Start9 server should be delivered and I'm looking forward to go deeper into the rabbit hole

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 25 Jan

BITCOIN UNIVERSITY

I like that guy

Would love to hear about your Start9 rabbit hole!!

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @hyperfree 26 Jan

Covid. Even Adam Back fell for it in the beginning.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Atreus 25 Jan

“Bitcoin is inevitable” is an accurate proverb. Adoption of Cyberspace's native currency, called Bitcoin, is inevitable, and for the same reason adopting writing systems was inevitable — but it took a long time for writing to spread.

We're all naive about the timeframe. The internet accelerates things compared to 2500 BC, but this is still mass social change we're talking about. And actually, all Bitcoiners have “normie” mentalities about time preference, purely because of the society that raised us.

There were people that forecast hyperbitcoinization before 2020! 🤷

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SaToSHiWoMaN 5 Mar outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.