How Pinned Posts Can Earn Sats For Territories \ stacker news ~meta

How Pinned Posts Can Earn Sats For Territories

4891 sats \ 34 comments \ @siggy47 6 Feb meta

Both @jeff and @grayruby have recently expressed the grim reality of trying to run a territory on Stacker News. Breaking even is an unrealistic pipe dream given the fee split structure as it exists. Are we fools? Maybe. As @elvismercury pointed out, there is value that perhaps can’t be calculated by adding up sats, and I agree. Also, no one forced us to own a territory. We knew the rules going in. So we can either surrender our territories, continue to pay our monthly fees and get angrier at that guy @k00b who we all used to like so much (and that @ekzyis guy too), or try to figure out a way to earn sats.

Pinned Posts

I drove everyone crazy to get pinned posts, so I started playing around with them. Initially you could not zap a pinned post, but now you can. Owners can market pinned posts as a better alternative to boosting for either individual stackers or organizations who boost. Boosting gives you added visibility for I think a day or two at most. A pinned post can give visibility for as long as the stacker wants. Perhaps a typical 25k boost could buy a pin for a week. It is a win win.

We can all sit around and wait until SN finds the time to build this code as an option, or we can start now. A prospective pinner makes the post, then tells the owner that they would like it pinned for a period of time. Price and term are negotiated. The owner replies to the post with the terms, and the stacker zaps the reply with the agreed upon amount. Yes, both parties must trust each other. We trust SN with our sats as it is anyway. In fact, setting forth the terms could actually be considered an enforceable contract in some jurisdictions, but that’s not the point. This is an open agreement visible to everyone. The owner’s reputation and that of the territory would be destroyed if the bargain was not upheld.

There are a few technical issues that might need to be addressed. I have the sense that pinned posts do not get the same treatment when it comes to being designated as “hot” or “top.” If I’m right, the poster may benefit from seeing how the post is doing organically over the first 24 hours or so before pinning. Maybe @k00b or @ekzyis can provide some insight.

Also, I think there might be a stigma associated with that little pin. I think a stealth pin would have value. The pinned post would look like any other post. I'll start bugging @ekzyis now.

What I like about this idea is that the owner gets zapped on his reply. This avoids the draconian fee split that SN uses and the sats go directly to the owner’s wallet.

I intend to start offering this option on my territories. Please let me know what you think.

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1682 sats \ 1 reply \ @elvismercury 6 Feb

Kudos to the spirit of experimentation. SN as a platform gives some tools, but that can't (and shouldn't) release people from the task of fucking around and seeing what they can accomplish using what's available to achieve their goals. This is a perfect example of that, thanks for elevating the discussion.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Thanks. I guess we all have to keep experimenting.

1252 sats \ 14 replies \ @grayruby 6 Feb

I don't mind taking a loss on the territory for even the first year. I just wanted to get a conversation going on how we can improve the economics and probably more importantly what are we going to do about marketing. 10x the users on SN is probably the solution. With more eyeballs come more desire to boost or advertise whatever it may be. Will there eventually be a cohesive marketing strategy that SN uses, and our territories piggyback off that or should we just do our own thing.

One thing I think we definitely need is a territory referral program and I don't mind if this is a shared cost between SN (or more likely the rewards pool) and the territory but I would like to be able to offer a new user 5 free posts and 100 sats or something along those lines to get them started. I am confident in the SN experience and the quality of content creation on SN that if we get people in the door they will keep coming back but as I mentioned in the post it is somewhat shocking to me that I am talking to bitcoiners on Nostr or twitter and they either don't know what SN is or vaguely heard about it but never used it.

This month I will be moving my territory social media posting to twitter and focusing on engaging with sports fans to try and get some newbies but also with the plebs on bitcoin twitter. Even if they don't want to talk sports but come to SN to talk bitcoin or econ or complain about shitcoins it's a win for all of us.

100 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 6 Feb

I'm curious what you expect the main difference to be if SN users 10x.

I doubt if posts will increase proportionally and that's most directly relevant for territory owners. If post zapping increased 10x, obviously posting fees could be increased dramatically and that would be great.

What if most of the new users are mostly just engaging in the comments? That's great for the UX, but probably the worst case scenario for monetization.

640 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 6 Feb

Even if new users only engaged in the comments it could lead to more willingness for people to invest in promoting posts, sponsoring a territory if we go that route. If you have a sports podcast for instance and I tell you it's 25,000 sats for you to a post about your podcast with a link to the pod at the top of the territory for a week, it's a much easier sell if I can say the avg posts gets 100 users engaging with it instead of 10.

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 6 Feb

I haven't gotten into the mental habit of thinking about advertising on SN yet.

640 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 6 Feb

Promoted or boosted posts, or paid pinned posts are like pseudo advertising. I am not sure I even like the idea of sponsored territories despite the fact it was my idea.

Should k00b be paying me a licensing fee for putting Stacker on the name of my arena or should I be paying him a licensing fee for using his brand?

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 6 Feb

My feeling is that he opened this can of worms when he sold the territories. It's not on you to figure out if he missed an entrepreneurial opportunity.

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr 6 Feb

Will there eventually be a cohesive marketing strategy that SN uses, and our territories piggyback off that or should we just do our own thing.

will put together an overall growth strategy doc outlining efforts SN is taking to grow the site and sharing success stories from territory owners as they occur

798 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 6 Feb

Excellent

50 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

All good ideas. I am curious how your X experiment goes. Sports might be fertile ground.

242 sats \ 5 replies \ @grayruby 6 Feb

When are you taking submissions until for your story contest. Is it Friday?

50 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Yes, midnight Friday GMT, which I think is 8pm EST Friday.

242 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 6 Feb

Great. Yes, I think sports is obviously a huge market but most of the potential will come from outside SN as I have been doing the posts so long now I think most of the stackers that are already on SN that are going to interact with the territory already do. Although there have been a couple new people lately. Is there growth potential from within, sure, but trying to bring sports content enjoyers to SN is probably a better outlet then trying to drag stackers who primarily want to talk about bitcoin and dev stuff to my arena might be a tough sell.

I think pinned posts could be a quick way to profitability for you. If you find the next bitcoin book or finance book coming out and offer the author the pinned spot for a blurb about their forth coming book with a link to where stackers can pre order. You could probably easily recoup your entire rent for the month. I don't see why an author wouldn't pay 100k sats to have a post about their book pinned at the top of the territory for the month before launch. You could also make smaller deals with substack writers. 25k sats for a week of pinned post featuring the blog of their choice and a link to sign up.

You could create a standard sell sheet with a bit of info and data about the territory and SN and why them promoting in the territory would align with their writing or fanbase etc.

Maybe you and @kr should do a test. Pin his bookmarkd blog or his most recent article "joe rogan's top books" or whichever one he wants for a week and see what kind of engagement, feedback you get and he can see if he gets a boost in click through. If his clicks increase 25% for that week that's a potential data point you can use when soliciting others.

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Very good ideas. I already have a few feelers out along the lines you describe re pinned posts, but no commitments yet. I'm starting with small players for small amounts, but even that could cover costs pretty easily.

242 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 6 Feb

Awesome. Good to hear.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

We'll see if they pan out.

reply on another page

753 sats \ 6 replies \ @beorange 6 Feb

Both @jeff and @grayruby have recently expressed the grim reality of trying to run a territory on Stacker News.

Labor of love

Also, I think there might be a stigma associated with that little pin. I think a stealth pin would have value. The pinned post would look like any other post.

IMHO This hurts transparency. I have no issues with the pin icon and I would prefer to keep things clear to the users.

286 sats \ 3 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 6 Feb

@OneOneSeven proposed an icon

#407104

64 sats \ 2 replies \ @OneOneSeven 6 Feb

This way looks better I think

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 6 Feb

bolt+pin.svg @sn

<svg  width="255" height="252" viewBox="0 0 255 252" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
<path d="M980 2207 c0 -3 69 -170 154 -369 85 -200 161 -380 170 -402 l16 -39
-419 5 -420 5 89 -96 c49 -53 150 -157 224 -231 75 -74 136 -139 136 -145 0
-6 -44 -60 -97 -121 -216 -245 -222 -254 -52 -86 96 94 177 172 180 172 4 0
160 -157 348 -349 187 -192 341 -347 341 -344 0 4 -103 210 -230 460 l-229
453 429 2 430 3 -216 222 -216 223 68 75 c48 54 72 74 83 69 9 -4 41 -9 72
-11 115 -10 209 78 209 197 0 112 -88 200 -200 200 -144 0 -238 -144 -184
-280 l16 -40 -48 -56 c-27 -31 -56 -65 -65 -76 -15 -19 -27 -8 -302 273 -158
161 -287 290 -287 286z m1020 -197 c15 -29 3 -59 -26 -66 -30 -8 -54 11 -54
40 0 46 59 64 80 26z m-60 -100 c0 -5 -4 -10 -10 -10 -5 0 -10 5 -10 10 0 6 5
10 10 10 6 0 10 -4 10 -10z"/>
</svg>

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 6 Feb

The pin was actually very close to the lightning in the other one.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Transparency? We can hide our wallet balance, cowboy hat, etc. Also, it would be transparent. The reply reveals the agreement. What I was referring to is when I see a pin on a feed I tend not to click it. Maybe that's just me. Once you click the post, you can read that it is pinned.

242 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 6 Feb

It'll take some getting used to being able to zap a pin. Because you can't zap the saloon pin as far as I know.

827 sats \ 0 replies \ @ladyluck 6 Feb

I don't own a territory but I love how conservation like this can help make it better and also drive the team to make updates that can optimise it.

533 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr 6 Feb

there’s one more pinned post worth thinking about, and that’s the Stacker Saloon.

i can think of a bunch of ways territory owners could monetize that space on their own territory, the most obvious of which is an exclusive paid chat for Territory contributors/subscribers/donors that works like the Stacker Saloon on the homepage.

need to think more about some of the trade-offs and what other features territory owners could offer paid contributors/subscribers/donors, but i think there is another revenue lever here.

798 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

That never occurred to me. Good idea.

263 sats \ 0 replies \ @satoshiplanet 6 Feb

Thanks for sharing 👌

417 sats \ 0 replies \ @kurszusz 6 Feb

Well pointed, it is a good method to get back some sats! Territory owners all deserve it, because to pay 100k sats monthly it is not a small amount!

Hopefullt very soon this will be an automatizes preocess (based on a smart contract), and territory owners will receive their sats automatically for pinned posts (this mean that who want to make her / him post to pin, just pay the "pinning fee", and this will arrive in the wallet of territory owner).

242 sats \ 1 reply \ @fred 6 Feb

The pin📍post can act as more visible element of the territory ergo it can serve as an ad.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Very true

242 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 6 Feb

I said 25k for a pin to GR last night during the foundry chat. I wholely agree this is a brilliant use of the pin. You've done good with this one sigs.

I had also noticed since I started pinning posts (like the daily, and one themed one) engagement on those posts has seen a huge uptick. Now perhaps it's just a case of those particular discussions were going to get engaged with anyway. Or that perhaps the continual engagement with my customers is starting to generate returning people. Or a combination of all of them. But since people rarely sort by recent. The pin has been really valuable to me a an owner and ive only really been experimenting with this idea a couple days. Even without the post itself getting zapped, the engagement gives comment fees, zaps on replies etc. which is organic growth and is much more sustainable than relying upon the actual post to be zapped.

I think 25k is plenty for the pin. A normal 25k boost would probably only keep that post in view for maybe a day. But the pin keeps it there until the pins removed.

I'm going to experiment with the hiring of pins by offering it out to artists on self promotion Sunday posts for 25k to hopefully help people find their music. One weeks prime exposure for wavlinks or Spotify links or SoundCloud etc etc for new EP drops or albums or whatever... Hell if we got anyone developing their own guitar FX pedals or something like that. Run an ad with the pin.

90 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 6 Feb

Exactly. What are you thinking? 25k for one week depending on position (1,2,or 3)? On another note. For my booksandarticles territory I'm trying a writing contest. I thought of you. Do you think there would be enough interest to have original artists participate in contests, like best song lyrics, best music video, etc?

266 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 6 Feb

I'd not got that far down in my thought process yet 🤔 perhaps I could do 25k for the week or even 5k a day (pay 25k get the weekend free ;) ). A pin is a pin I hadn't really thought too heavily about 1,2,3 on the pins. I wouldn't want to crowd it too much.

I am however cautious to remind myself that although someone is paying for a pin I have and will use the pins for my own content such as the daily. Just to ensure that the current days daily is easily accessible. Any themed stuff I do I'd also pin. But I am conscious that me doing that may rub people up the wrong way if they're paying for it. ...

Perhaps I look at the 1,2,3 model and make the paid pin 1 and the territory pins 2,3.

I think I'd also run only one paid pin at a time. So as not to split the attention off of the paid pin too much. If it's being sold off as a product I hope to be able to provide a product to its most useful extent.

As for the competition I hadn't really considered using that as an idea. But I think it's a great one. Some vocalists have nothing to say or struggle to write and could utilise bounties to have lyrics written for them. A competition I think is something to look into as SN itself grows. I'm unsure if as it stands there's enough individual artists on SN to take place in a comp for writing lyrics or making music videos or anything like that just yet. But I do hope in the future that really could be something that ~Music does.

This does spark some ideas in my head about perhaps utilising the territory details post to give examples of different post types and how to potentially use them. Eg. A bounty post to attract a vocalist to provide vocals to your track. Or a producer to help produce something you've been working on. I'll have to think hard on that.

Cheers sigs, you've made my brain need to go to work. Got a lot to dive into now.