Bitcoin adoption using Ecash - use case scenario \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Bitcoin adoption using Ecash - use case scenario darthcoin.substack.com/p/bitcoin-adoption-using-ecash

5750 sats \ 37 comments \ @DarthCoin 9 Feb bitcoin

WHY WOULD USE SUCH THING AS ECASH?

The situation with Bitcoin (BTC) and Lightning Network (LN) right now, is not favorable with onboarding billions of people, that are not well prepared and this situation will get more complicated until we could find more practical and easier solutions.

Yes, some old bitcoiners will not see any advantage of using this ecash, other than adding some more privacy on top of the existing LN protocol. Those that have already a lot of liquidity in LN channels and various UTXOs in cold storage, this use case will not bring them too many advantages, except if they want to use ecash as a form of coinjoin their income sources. But that is another story.

But for many new Bitcoin users is quite hard to get started with a UTXO directly onchain and from there running sophisticated LN nodes, public or even private nodes. Managing LN liquidity is not so easy for many new users. Yes, they can use a large number of custodial LN wallets / accounts, but those also still could leak a lot of personal information and easily be shut down or limiting access to users funds.

Read the full article here....

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174 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheWildHustle 9 Feb

Return of the Darth!

Hopefully mints will become something like nostr relays.

The obfuscation of bitcoin will smack normies in the face.

Would be crazy if someone created a non-custodial mint.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ealvar26 11 Feb

That's a really cool idea 💡

140 sats \ 0 replies \ @TomK 10 Feb

Hey Darth, thank You for the article.

How are You, I hope anything is fine. We need You here!

Greets from the south

198 sats \ 2 replies \ @BlueSlime 10 Feb

You need to reevaluate your understanding of ecash if you don't think fractional reserve is possible.

You are selling blind signatures that have zero ties to the underlying asset. It is literally digital fiat banknotes from the mint.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 11 Feb

Please show me a demonstration where you could do a fractional reserve on ecash cashu. I really want to see it. Otherwise... just STFU.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cyberpunk02 11 Feb

get out the sabres!

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 9 Feb

Welcome back to business LN Lord. We missed you here.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 9 Feb

welcome back old friend 👀

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 9 Feb

Thanks Darth. Nice to see you on SN again.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 10 Feb

10 sats \ 13 replies \ @mo 9 Feb

Thanks Darth, much appreciated finally reading your insights on ecash. Wondering why you're still using a centralized platform like substack!? We can't zap you there!

11 sats \ 12 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 9 Feb

why you're still using a centralized platform like substack!?

Simply opsec. Why would I use one of my private domains using my own private hosted servers? Those domains and servers are exclusively for private stuff, separate from "Darth" stuff. Sometimes you should know how to use custodial solutions in YOUR favor. Custodial doesn't mean it should not be used at all. Also SN is centralized, why do you post here?

In life you must learn how to separate private from public.

As said in the past: when SN will provide a better alternative for substack I will move my guides on SN. Until then substack serve a purpose and works just fine.

We can't zap you there!

I do not write these guides only to get sats. Is only V4V. That is not a reason to not use substack. If you read the article until the end you will see the QR and LN address where you can zap. Also you can zap it here (that's why I posted here too).

0 sats \ 11 replies \ @mo 9 Feb

I know you don't need our zaps, it's just a form of appreciation, please do accept it with joy!

Custodial isn't decentralized, if substack shut down your guides are maybe lost? it would be worth doing a backup somewhere else... what about NIP-23 on nostr?

632 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 9 Feb

NIP-23 on nostr?

crap no one is reading. Once you post a long form is lost in the plethora of other posts. Nobody will look for your long posts. That form is not for keeping a nice organized blog or newsletter, is just for long rants, that will catch only actual attention. after few days nobody will know that post exist.

I don't understand why people hate substack. I find it handy and I personally don't give a shit if they shut down all my posts someday. I always keep a backup that can be imported anytime in another form of blog platform. I just want people to go to a single place to read my guides, that's all.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 9 Feb

I really like your pragmatic approach to things. Not sure how often you hear this.

Might be one of the underappreciated things about Darth :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ealvar26 11 Feb

Nah no way hermano yo leo tus posts viejos

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 10 Feb

I like substack

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 9 Feb

what about NIP-23 on nostr?

Off-topic: SN uses NIP-23 for crossposting and it's confusing since it doesn't show up on the "normal clients" like Primal on Snort. At least I couldn't find them there.

How nostr works (or is supposed to work) becomes more and more intransparent imo which is bad for UX

541 sats \ 3 replies \ @mo 10 Feb

I think is how it should be, what should be shown in Primal or Snort are the comments on posts, not the posts itself. If you use Habla or Yakihonne you'll be able to see them all.

@ekzyis did you see this? An interesting correlation

@Eobard isn't bax UX, you can NOT have a client that show everything related to a npub. The trend look's like there are different clients for different kinds (of notes and other stuff).

And make sense to me, it's just the beginning and it's good to differentiate and create multiple opportunities in the market. If the client does not satisfy your need, use another one

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 10 Feb

@ekzyis did you see this? An interesting correlation

No, I didn't, thanks for the link! We have some stuff regarding this in the pipeline (to be precise, @bitcoinplebdev has). I have some reservations against using NIP-41 though which I mentioned in the PR. Regarding using NIP-01 for comments: I am not sure how edits should work in that case without breaking user expectations (also mentioned in the PR).

However, I have an idea: the frontend does only sign events and our worker in the backend publishes the most recent one for an item when the edit timer ran out. So for every edit, the client signs the event and sends it to the backend

I might didn't think this through yet though. I just came up with this idea while replying.

I will add this thoughts to the ticket.

And make sense to me, it's just the beginning and it's good to differentiate and create multiple opportunities in the market. If the client does not satisfy your need, use another one

Yeah, I agree. My main pain point with nostr is just that it's sometimes not clear if something is not working or if it's working as expected and I am just missing something (use a different client for example).

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @bitcoinplebdev 10 Feb

Great idea! I think this is a good middleground approach. Relying on paramterized replaceable events seems a bit fickle. It works well for nip23 long-form events but even then clients are taking a long time to implement it and I know a lot of relay runners don't like/support replaceable events.

Since currently a user already has to resign on an edit of a crossposted item the UX should be the same if we have worker broadcast it after edit window.

One thing we would want to consider is what to show in item-info for a crossposted item DURING the edit window. Currently it will either show crosspost to nostr or nostr note

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mo 11 Feb

It's a good problem to have, if you think it right, it could become a nice SN feature that differentiate it from any other nostr client.

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541 sats \ 1 reply \ @Eobard 9 Feb

deleted by author

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 10 Feb

Ah, thanks, didn't know that!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @JulienPH 13 Feb

Thanks @DarthCoin

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @piecover 10 Feb

Sure I would def use it

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 9 Feb

WHY WOULD USE SUCH THING AS ECASH?

lol, this read as the start of a big rant about ~ecash

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 9 Feb

Dropped a nut 🌰

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @freetx 9 Feb

How are you going to protect yourself from getting frac-reserved? Its trivial for the mint to issue more ecash tokens to themselves and spend into the economy. Done correctly it would be very hard to detect this....

51 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 9 Feb

Why would you want to replace the whole use of Bitcoin using conventional wallets with using only ecash? Nobody is saying that. Please pay attention to what is presented in the guide.

getting frac-reserved?

you can't do fractional reserve with a mint. The only risk is that the minter is deleting the mint or is shutting down the server. But cannot create more tokens than sats he put in the mint.

As I said in the guide: this is not the ultimate way to use bitcoin. Is just another way to onboard more people and accommodate them with sats. Using ecash INVOLVE a certain level of trust in the parties, as I explained the use case: a small merchant using ecash as digital gift cards. That's all.

790 sats \ 0 replies \ @freetx 9 Feb

you can't do fractional reserve with a mint.

No even @calle agrees that the biggest risk with ecash is being debased (not on the sats end, but by the mint printing extra tokens to give to themselves).

Lets talk in specifics: What exactly is a "eCash Mint"?

It is a python script that accepts LN and issues signatures....thats it. There is nothing stopping the python script from issuing 1.05x signatures for every sat that is received. That 5% extra issuance would be impossible for any users to detect.

713 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lumor 9 Feb

From your guide:

The banker cannot create more sats (fractional reserve) than he have in custody, but still can shut down the mint and users cannot redeem their sats anymore.

This is not true AFAIK, as @freetx agrees. Please fix the text in your guide @DarthCoin. Good to see you again!

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 10 Feb

Bit refill?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 10 Feb

Bitrefill gift cards are not exchangeable for sats unlike ecash. They are limited to specific stores.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @franzap 10 Feb

Yeah, you can definitely do fractional reserve with a mint

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 9 Feb

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SaToSHiWoMaN 11 Feb outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.