In 5 years will you be making more on-chain transactions or fewer? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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In 5 years will you be making more on-chain transactions or fewer?

1939 sats \ 34 comments \ @Scoresby 13 Mar bitcoin

Over the last six months, it felt like my goal was to avoid the chain as much as possible. Now fees are coming down a bit, I don't mind so much. But it made me wonder: what do I think it will be like in five years?

More on-chain transactions14.9%

Fewer on-chain transactions85.1%

74 votes \ poll ended

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66 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 13 Mar

LOL I am already making strictly minimal for opening and closing LN channels. In fact, I open channels only when I got a force close, otherwise I don't need to close them, I just do infinite txs.

I can't even remember when I paid something onchain LOL.

Onchain must be used strictly for opening and closing LN channels.

39 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 13 Mar

Follow Darth's guides!

This is the way!

53 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 13 Mar

I run a shop. I accept lightning. As balances build up, I sweep to chain. There's not really a way around this.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 13 Mar

This is the way. This is how LN was meant to work. Like a glass of water. You pour water, then you must drink it.

31 sats \ 4 replies \ @030e0dca83 14 Mar

https://m.stacker.news/20730

Can't find this comment of @DarthCoin

Today I use onchain to sent DCA sats from exchange. In the future I'll follow Darth advise

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 14 Mar

Read my guides. I wrote extensive guides about how to do it. https://darth-coin.github.io/

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @030e0dca83 14 Mar

I can't imagine how much time you do spend to educate people

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 14 Mar

24/7 I stopped working any job end of 2019 and dedicate my time only to Bitcoin. Except summer time, when I go to build a Bitcoin Citadel. https://darthcoin.substack.com/about

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 14 Mar

We've already talked about bags in your citadel. Hope one day I can dedicate my life to education too

Have a great day, mate

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheWildHustle 14 Mar

On chain transactions will become akin to sacred rituals

65 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 13 Mar

Likely less. I have reduced my usage over the past year or so and I am guessing that will continue. I will do larger transactions when I do use on chain but less of them.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 13 Mar

I kinda figured everybody would say less. But it's an interesting situation, no? We all plan on using the chain less, so...I'm assuming we all are planning on pretty massive adoption so that all these people using it less still amounts to higher fees.

56 sats \ 2 replies \ @Natalia 13 Mar

def fewer.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 13 Mar

Because you will have LN channels set up and not need to, or because some other solution?

48 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 13 Mar freebie

because more merchants will accept LN, and people would prefer transacting with each other with LN too - faster and cheaper.

Personally, I don't use Onchian that much other than for the saving or opening channels.

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @Catcher 13 Mar

Recently I've paid 3000 sats in fees at the rate of 11 sats/vB, ~ 2 usd. In 5 years it can be equivalent to 20 USD. Can be 40, can be 100 if fees are high and somebody is pushing the picture of their dog inside the block.

Samson Mow talked about it on a recent podcast on WBD. Most newcomers in 5 years won't even have their own UTXOs to do on-chain transactions in the 1st place.

34 sats \ 9 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 13 Mar

Likely fewer. I have like 50 UTXO’s on the main chain. I’ve never consolidated, but I need to do that soon.

Just opened up some with a new Phoenix wallet this week

1 sat \ 8 replies \ @Scoresby OP 13 Mar

I'm a fan of this setup: open a big channel with phoenix (2m sats or so if you can), then make a LN to on chain boltz transfer (maybe 75% of the sats depending on how much you think you'll spend) back to your on chain wallet so that you have a good amount of inbound liquidity.

18 sats \ 7 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 14 Mar

Thanks for the insights.

So I need to admit I’m a bit of a noob with my self custody knowledge. I found my way into Bitcoin at the spring of 2021 top. The 50 UTXOs are within my Unchained multi sig vault. They have instructions there on how to condense but given the size of my stack that makes me a bit nervous sending the whole thing in a way I’ve never done. I may call them to confirm somethings but it looked like a pretty high fee when I checked it out last night.

As for Lighting. I had Blue Wallet, then Exodus(wallet of Satoshi), and now self hosted Phoenix, which I just did this week. So I’m learning about liquidity there.

So much to learn still….

27 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 14 Mar

@DarthCoin has some pretty good guides.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 14 Mar

Thanks yeah I check his stuff out often, super helpful. A lot there! That lead me to Phoenix wallet and the feedback on SN. I’ll probably get another one for other purposes like he mentioned.

5 sats \ 4 replies \ @chairman_pretense 14 Mar

Multisig transactions are larger, so will also increase the fee. Well worth looking into so you can consolidate and futureproof your stack.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 14 Mar

Ah didn’t realize that impact. 165k sats to consolidate in the next 6 blocks ouch. I’ll keep watching

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @chairman_pretense 14 Mar

If you take a look at mempool.space and the predicted next block template, you can filter by transaction type for consolidations. You'll see you're not alone - it's painful but hopefully not something you'll need to repeat frequently.

Stacking in a lightning wallet then swapping for onchain etc. in future will help avoid running into the same problem.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 14 Mar

Thanks yeah I’ve been monitoring that site . Ordinals have obviously had a big impact on this.

I DCA daily and send to cold storage at a certain amount so I assume I’ll keep consolidating down to one UTXO. Once ore twice a year? Are there issues with just having one UTXO on chain?

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @chairman_pretense 14 Mar

The main issue as I understand it is privacy, and whether or not you want to mix coins from different sources.

Let's say you have some non kyc sats you earned or bought p2p, it would be sensible to keep those utxos separate from your KYC exchange bought stash.

And even if your whole stack is fully KYC from an exchange, the argument for multiple utxos (let's say, low single digits) is that you don't disclose the value of your whole stack to someone who receives a payment from you. Of course, you could improve forward privacy of a single big utxo by using a coinjoin payment - but again, at added cost.

Lots of pros and cons to weigh up!

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38 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr 13 Mar

i’d say fewer

70 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 13 Mar

Everyone thinks fewer it seems.

17 sats \ 4 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 14 Mar

Any self respecting cowboy already makes far more off-chain transactions. Think about it. Every zap here on @sn is an off chain transaction.

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @OT 14 Mar

Well... Every zap is just a tally on SN lightning node. When you withdraw/deposit sats they are actually using lightning

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 14 Mar

Zaps still count as "off-chain" transactions.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 14 Mar

It only appears to be a zap on SN

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 14 Mar

I see a similarity between the way zaps are pooled on SN and lightning txs are pooled off-chain. I am not saying that SN has nearly the same protection that LN does. And LN does not share nearly the same security model that Bitcoin on-chain does, but I do see zaps as bona-fide trusted centralized off-chain transactions.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 14 Mar

Definitely less. We only HODL on chain.