What is your "Why" for libertarianism? \ stacker news ~libertarian

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2926 sats \ 39 comments \ @scottathan 22 Mar libertarian

Every person I've met seems to have a reason for being a libertarian. Whether it's an ethical theory they subscribe to, an economic or legal argument, a personal experience, a gut feeling, or some mix. What is your why for supporting liberal ideas?

Personally, it's a mix of my own religious/ethical feelings on how we ought to treat and respect others, mixed with Hayekian arguments surrounding epistemics and knowledge. I think we owe other people a level of respect and humility that the vast majority of governmental systems are incompatible with. In addition, I feel liberalism (or libertarianism if you want to use that word) is the only system that actually has faith in people's capacity for goodness and ingenuity. Coercion and modern states generally are an insult to everything that makes human beings incredible

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294 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 22 Mar

From what I can tell, my "why" is mostly an inborn sensibility. I hate bullies and I'm willing to entertain unusual ideas.

The case for the state being essentially a criminal organization is pretty clear cut, if you're willing to hear it.

More philosophically, I guess my "why" is that I like peace and libertarianism is the only political philosophy that I think is compatible with a peaceful society.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 22 Mar

I think for me the reason is in my wiring as well. The more I observe of people the more I think "The Righteous Mind" got it right.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 22 Mar

I would like to think that I'm a libertarian just because I'm so smart that I figured it out.

However, occasionally my mom will unearth some 4th grade writing assignment and it's clear as day that I just started out this way.

386 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b 22 Mar

I have a hard time explaining why someone's freedom should be taken away if they aren't harming others.

130 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford 22 Mar

Isn't it odd that so few people even consider this? It is to me.

33 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 22 Mar

I think most people do consider it loosely, but it's easy to get swept up in utilitarian arguments and any activity can be framed as indirectly harmful.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 22 Mar

My statement was dumb. I know why. Just as I experienced people are programmed by the gov education system and their parents who are products from the same system. I do think some of it is mental wiring. I have learned that I have more curiosity than most of my family and that has led me to question pretty much everything. When you start asking questions you find answers you don't like. Most people stop. If you are wired with more curiosity you push through.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 22 Mar

I can't remember where I read it, but political dispositions are more nature than nurture. It makes sense too from a species design perspective: if you want coordination systems to be adaptive, you need strategies to compete, because any mono-system will have failure modes. Assuming political dispositions are natural also gives me more empathy for people with whom I disagree politically, ie so long as we are at least intending well, and even if it contributes to some ruin, we're all playing our part to keep things dynamic. It sucks to disagree and for bad ideas to win temporarily, but the alternative imo is like a car without brakes or a steering wheel.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Mar

You're right. And it does get easier to do over time. Honestly, I think it gets pushed to the back of most people's minds. I know that is what I used to do. Anyone who brings it up isn't really well received in the room lol.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @MarsIronPI 6 Apr

Yeah, but I’m starting to think that libertarianism isn’t far enough. As long as there are laws, anyone who doesn’t agree with the laws is a slave. 99% approval is no excuse to tyrannize the 1%.

211 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 22 Mar

I don't identify myself as a libertarian but I did in the past. Once I heard the non-aggression principle I realized that this principle aligned with my values. When I see conflict I have always tended to try to think of solutions that aren't one sided. Things that both sides could agree to. Sometimes this is impossible but usually it isn't. Its just that no one seems to care to try. They aren't acting in good faith. When I discovered Ron Paul it was like this. Finally someone is expressing my thoughts in a way I haven't heard. A better way. It was like finding my people. People that aren't obsessed with winning the argument. But finding the solution.

And believe me. Libertarians are not good at winning. But they have many solutions :)

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @scottathan OP 22 Mar

Just curious, do you identify yourself as any particular philosophy now or just an indepent thinker/political agnostic?

Also, I deeply resonate with your experience there. Same thing happened to me when a friend introduced me to the word libertarian. Up until then I'd considered myself a conservative who didn't fit in with the conservatives. There's edges of the freedom movement that seem more interested in shouting matches then solutions, but the intellectual core is truly beautiful

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 22 Mar

I don't label myself any more because the labels I would most closely align with are deeply misunderstood. I am a citizen of heaven. A child of God. No King but Christ. That's probably the most accurate thing. But even that, people misunderstand. I'm opposed to the existence of the state but I believe humanity and nature need governance. I believe free markets are probably the best solution to most problems but with them you will organically see governance systems evolve. I'm still learning (I hope) so that is another reason with I object to a label.

61 sats \ 14 replies \ @tomlaies 22 Mar

Freedom is the natural state of existence.

When there are rules, people try the maximum within them. When there are trade restrictions, people try to arbitrage them. When there are laws, people search for gaps. When there are resources/capital, people try to gather and acquire them.

It's like water flowing downhill into the ocean. The natural state of being.

21 sats \ 13 replies \ @DarthCoin 22 Mar

Then why in your history posts, you forced people into taking jabs and wearing stupid masks? For respecting their freedom?

77 sats \ 6 replies \ @tomlaies 22 Mar

No, I don't force anyone to take jabs or wear mask. I think these things should be voluntary. But they are still safe and effective. Like, those are facts - facts are objectively true and don't change my stance on anarcho-libertarianism.

It's been 4 years Darth, get over it. The virus has mutated and the population developed herd immunity. It's over.

121 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 22 Mar freebie

I will never forget what criminals did. And I will never forget what YOU did. Is not over for me until all criminals will pay.

26 sats \ 2 replies \ @orthwyrm 23 Mar

What crime did @tomlaies commit? Did he jab people against their will, or force them to wear masks?

The only "crime" he seems to be guilty of is having an opinion you disagree with, for which he must apparently "pay". What the fuck does that make you, then?

87 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 23 Mar

You are new on SN. This is going way back. If you don't know what is zbout please don't comment. Or look into his old pists and comments and find out. If he didn't delete them. I will never forget those words. And he just pretend to be a "freedom" lover. Be aware, infiltrators are everywhere.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @orthwyrm 23 Mar

What crime did he commit?

54 sats \ 1 reply \ @tomlaies 22 Mar

Are you accusing me of lying? I don't lie and I haven't changed my opinion on this.

Vaccines are safe and effective and I'll recommend everyone to take them. But I don't think they should be forced. In fact, I think governments should be abolished.

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 22 Mar

Man, just let it go. Its in the past. Everyone makes mistakes.

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @Satosora 22 Mar

Man, l hated this part about the sheeple. Everyone was herding each other to get the jab and wear masks. Thankfully l didnt have to get any. I wonder if there will be any long term health effects?

87 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 22 Mar

long term health effects?

Yes, people die and/or get dumb. And people like tomlaies were pushing this idiocy on others. I WILL NEVER FORGET THEM. THEY MUST PAY.

88 sats \ 2 replies \ @scottathan OP 23 Mar freebie

Darth, save your sats and stop putting words in @tomlaies mouth

37 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 23 Mar

If you don't know what is about why do you comment? This is an old thing between me and him when you weren"t here. I know very well what am I talking about.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 23 Mar

You can see by the sats who is winning lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 22 Mar

I remember they were pushing it depending on where you worked. That was rough. I didnt take it, and they made me pay for all my home tests l did weekly. It cost a fortune in the beginning, then it got easier. But l kept my freedom of choice.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cascdr 24 Mar

On an intellectual level: it's just common sense. Nothing that is top down works well. Be it closed loop control systems, neural networks, economies or societies.

On a more spiritual level: it's that love that is forced and not given freely cannot be truly respected or genuine. If we're forced to love our neighbor it's at best a temporary truce and at worst a boiling resentment that will eventually erupt.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Louferlou 23 Mar

For me it's more a "why" for statism... Why should we have to live our short existence under oppressive regimes / mafia ? This make absolutely non sense...

That's why I came logically to liberalism for the same reason you describe on your post basically... I want peace, and freedom, not pressure and violence from an overlord.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 22 Mar

I really believe that many things boil down to morals. As society loses them, people become more like animals. Dune anyone?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xIlmari 22 Mar

Because the opposite is either direct coercion, or a system that provenly leads to coercion.

States are basically run like mafias. They unlawfully and forecefully claim dominion over a territory as well as a group of people and racketeer their "citizens" and passerbys alike.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Voldemort 22 Mar

My why for limited government is because big government creates perverse incentives.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @watchmancbiz 22 Mar

I answer to God alone, no man! not government! I believe in individual liberty & personal freedom! God gave us freedom of choice, not oppression! How to fix the problem? seek God to fix the immoral heart!!! gov. is never the answer! 💥

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @halalmoney 22 Mar

By putting freedom before justice you end up with more of both.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 22 Mar

The 'why' of mine is that I don't want to limit myself for the choices. I'm more of a person who loves to explore different aspects of life. I believe that in my mind I shall always remain free without the shackles of anything whatsoever.

The bigger picture is that we are human beings and only libertarianism enables the self realisation, and a true sense of freedom. The only way to self-govern a society goes through libertarianism.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @doubleplusgood23 22 Mar

It can be hard at times but I have to accept the person who knows what actions are best for themselves is the person themselves.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0338853d46 23 Mar freebie

My main would be the unpredictability of complex systems and human behavior. Central planning may seem tempting, but it leads the path to corruption, disasters and totalitarian reaction from the State.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bzzzt 22 Mar freebie

ive gotten quite a taste of the administrative state, running a small business in a heavily regulated industry in the US. my wife also works in public schools and the bullshit from admin and the union...

between those two ive become completely overwhelmed with the waste and crowding out of practical, intuitive value creation that is the result of the engorged administrative state.