INTRUDER ALERT! - Shitcoiner at the Meetup \ stacker news ~bitcoin

INTRUDER ALERT! - Shitcoiner at the Meetup

1432 sats \ 32 comments \ @jasonb 2 Apr bitcoin

Help! Non-toxic maxis, how do you handle the shitcoiner at your meetup? I anticipate most of the comments to this post will be ultra-toxic memes, which is fine, albeit kind of tired. However, if you're not toxic, I'd really like your input on this situation.

The meetup I run with someone else consciously doesn't mention being Bitcoin-only in hopes of (and we have done this successfully a number of times) finding young shitcoiners before they get burned. Last night, I had my first outspoken, true believing, and not-at-all new shitcoiner come to the meetup. He was hard to wrangle, pretty knowledgable, and one other guest even started to address their questions to him. I think I held my own with the help of a few other maxis, but I want as many tools in my pocket to deal with this guy in the future. I'm not bad at debating, but I don't want to waste all my time sparring with a guy like this or just looking looking insecure by saying we need to move on. In particular, he was REALLY into Coinbase as a platform and actively discouraged self-custody. I always want to end with the facts, but he was pretty obnoxious about always trying to weasel in one last statement.

Again, I know most of the responses are going to be, "just put Bitcoin-only language into the advertising," or "embarrass the guy into submission," the latter of which is really just bitcoiner cancel-culture, and the former not being appropriate for my beginner group. My group specifically exists to spread awareness and education in a city that desperately needs, and is mostly not even aware of Bitcoin. Given those goals and my stubborn take on advertising, does anyone have some solid advice on shitcoiner wrangling?

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247 sats \ 13 replies \ @kr 2 Apr

rather than argue with him, show him all the cool things Bitcoin can do.

set him up with a Stacker News account, send him some zaps, and show him all the ways he can use sats on Lightning.

460 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

Thanks! Yeah, he was definitely in the, "the only use case for Bitcoin is a store of value and you short buy flashy centralized stuff for anything practical," camp. I talked about how that might be the only use case for HIM, but there's all of these other ways people are using it and lightning is going to change all of that. It never occurred to me to tell him he can zap (and downzap) the news! That's definitely on my short list next time!

104 sats \ 11 replies \ @DarthCoin 2 Apr

set him up with a Stacker News account,

and Darth will take care...

10 sats \ 9 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

I have to admit, I'm kind of proud to have finally posted something that earned a @DarthCoin comment, even though...well yeah, suffice to say I don't think we're in the same school of thought on dealing with this particular issue.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 2 Apr

The novelty wears off after a day or less

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @DarthCoin 2 Apr

shitcoiners only have 2 choices with me:

became good bitcoiners
suicide

I even created a suicide line for those squareheads

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

What's an appropriate time-frame? Given that most folks that became bitcoiners post-2017 seem to have started as shitcoiners, we may end up losing a lot of potential grade-A maxis if we don't get the seppuku countdown right.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 2 Apr

Bitcoin is only for the brave, not for the weak...

If they want to be good bitcoiners, they just have to read my guides.

1 sat \ 4 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

Will they have permission to use the network at that point?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 2 Apr

what network?

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 2 Apr

😂

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @HardMoney 2 Apr

Try to have him clearly define what draws him to “crypto”. Seeing that he isn’t a self custody guy my guess is he’s entirely focused on fiat NGU. It’s basically gambling to him.

He is literally just hoping whatever shitcoin he buys goes up by the 10x or 100x

Doesn’t give a shit about sovereignty or better money. Likely doesn’t even understand money if he’s oriented on fiat value.

Blackrock and fidelity aren’t launching DogWifHat ETFs lol. He’s focused on vapourware that is a slot machine. You’re focused on the hardest money ever known to mankind that is becoming mainstream and will suck value from stocks, bonds, gold, and real estate.

I’d try forming the argument that:

Shitcoins are experiments that resemble tech companies more than commodity money and 99.9% will fail
Any of the cool features coming from these experiments will be built into bitcoin eventually
Bitcoin doesn’t give a fuck about crypto experiments / vaporware. It’s becoming a mainstream macro asset to be discussed alongside gold and bonds in portfolio allocation

He is peddling penny stock pump and dumps. You are teaching people about the modern day equivalent of S&P index investing that compounds wealth over time.

21 sats \ 4 replies \ @Gerrrrt 2 Apr

Sorry if my reply is one of the predictable ones, but I'd go with zero tolerance for shitcoinery, especially in the company of noobs. As for he/him's coinbase nonsense, that makes him sound like a meme. And don't be bullied into keeping him around because you don't want to censor - it's your space, curate it how you jolly-well please. On Scotland we'd tell him to "get tae fuck, you're not welcome here".

However... re-reading your post, I'm going to guess you have 'crypto' in your advertising. If so, this is all self inflicted. You won't help noobs by taking them on a hike through a field of dog shit.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

Also, this is the first incident we've had like this after a yearish of this particular new bitcoiner-focused meetup. I don't even think it went that poorly as far as shutting him down last night. I just want to do better still next time.

OK, self-incriminating protest over. I think your thought that we have crypto in the advertising got me feeling self-conscious. haha

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

We most certainly do NOT have crypto in our advertising. lol We're definitely bitcoin-only. We just don't use any bitcoin-only jargon people might not be familiar with.

As to the rest of your comment, yeah, I get it. I still think that actually makes me the bully. I just need to figure out how, as you say, not to get bullied by him.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Gerrrrt 2 Apr

Ok, I'm sorry and I take the crypto bit back.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

It was a fair assumption, given my post. I just want to make it unequivocally known that we're most certainly not pro-shitcoin.

21 sats \ 6 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 2 Apr

Man, even most of the shitcoiners I've run into (or, um, been in my less-knowledgable days) still take a "not your keys, not your coins" approach. Being anti-self-custody just seem like a weird choice, but maybe custodial lightning is a good point of entry?

42 sats \ 5 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

At the end of the day, this particular guy was really anti-debasement but not concerned about censorship and seizure. This is why I personally believe (you can never really know what's going on in someone else's brain, right?) he was being honest and intellectually consistent.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @HardMoney 2 Apr

Anti debasement and crypto don’t align really. You’re moving from a central bank of fiat economists to a central bank of developers.

Even if he is an Eth maxi the rules around issuance resemble similar central planning as Jpow

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

Yup. He was definitely inconsistent in that sense. Seems like a good way to put it too. Vitalek Buterin or Charles Hoskinson become the central bankers.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 2 Apr

Good point, and one I should remember more often -- there are many reasons people are involved in BTC and/or crypto, and I shouldn't make assumptions.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

I'm still not saying he was right. He was most certainly wrong and I pushed back hard on the Coinbase thing. I told the tragic tales of FTX, Voyager, and Celcius. I'm just saying, he seemed to still truly believe that wasn't a legit concern.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ChrisS 2 Apr

If he is concerned only about debasement then he should be very concerned about the need to self custody. Every bank in the history of the world has debased the money it held on behalf of its customers. Self custody is the only tool we have against debasement. If all the bitcoin was held on exchanges those exchanges could sell has much paper bitcoin as they wanted and it would make bitcoin worthless, even ignoring the lake of censorship resistance and seizure resistance leaving the money on an exchange would cause.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @atl 3 Apr

This might not be your style, but just telling the dude straight up that this is mainly a bitcoin space. No followup, no bullshit, no belittling, just a couple words straight to his ego. I know you advertise as a “crypto” meetup but it doesn’t hurt to throw something like that out there to mark your territory. See what happens. I too am opposed to conflict, but friction is a part of life. Sometimes by creating awkwardness you become the dominant figure once again by simply stating a fact. Fuck em. Who cares what his intentions are. Your space, your rules.

Just an idea. Might help you formulate your own tactics.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @southside263 2 Apr

dont argue. Just say:

“We’re into bitcoin, come back when you’re ready.” 🤙🏽

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @provolone 2 Apr

Is he trying to sell something?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jasonb OP 2 Apr

If anything in particular, it would be Coinbase stock.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @frostdragon 2 Apr

Ask lots of questions. Not only about what he believes and why, but about what he thinks about different bitcoin facts and ideas. Go on the journey with him instead of pushing him along.

Remember that there might actually be a thing or two to learn from his perspective! Seeing your humility and willingness to learn from someone you disagree with is the best way to build trust and respect, and it’s the best shot you have at convincing anyone of anything.