pull down to refresh
57 sats \ 11 replies \ @Scoresby OP 4 Apr \ on: L0laL33t's criticism of Amboss's OFAC compliance tool lightning
My own views: the fact is that the US (or any government) can attach penalties to receiving bitcoin from specific addresses.
Until Bitcoin increases privacy protections (either through tech, or much more widespread use of coinjoins) it seems likely that merchants and service providers will be vulnerable to state attacks (ie: you received bitcoin from a sanctioned address, you go to jail).
It is unreasonable to expect businesses offering services in the space to expose themselves to punishment. Unless they are running completely under the radar, the government clearly knows where to find them.
So I think boycotting a business that builds something like Amboss built is too strong a reaction.
It's shitty, but I don't think any serious company can operate with fuck-the-state ideals.
reply
Right. Kind of the Samurai v Wasabi debate.
The principled company doesn't build compliance tools and just sticks with offering services that don't help gov'ts do bad things.
Our question here isn't whether they can or should build the product. Our question is what do we do in response? The twitter post recommends closing all channels with Amboss (which is a very muscular form of boycott I think).
Short if that we can condemn them online and get up enough backlash that maybe they stop offering the service. But still use their services.
Are there any other options?
(Maybe the other conversation I veered into with Darth here was how bitcoin as a whole should behave toward the state.)
reply
Yeah that wouldn't be me.
reply
Boycott is the only way to extirpate a disease. The disease, the cancer is the ones that only want to comply with gov rules.
When the solution is so simple: DO NOT COMPLY. Who the fuck is this gov to impose rules over my own money?
Nobody is asking this simple question.
This is Amboss now...
reply
Let's play this out: if you are a bitcoin business that follows the do not comply path.
I imagine you get fined.
Now, you can choose not to pay the fine, but then I imagine you go to jail.
They can put you in jail because you have a bank account and your business pays taxes. So they know where you live.
Maybe we should say to the business, you weren't cypherpunk enough. Don't have bank accounts. Don't pay taxes. But then I think we have just given them many more hurdles and starting a business is hard enough.
It seems to me that all we end with is all the good people quiting and giving up because they can't out compete the shitty people.
reply
I imagine you go to jail.
so people pay fines only because are threaten. Is it not this plain robbery?
You can easily won in any court.
So you prefer to just obey and say nothing... yeah but you want "freedom" with Bitcoin.
I have news for you... until people will not realize that by simply saying "I do not comply" and fuck off the gov, Bitcoin will be totally useless, in a compliant environment.
Let's stop this whole bullshit with "if you do not pay taxes you go to jail".
IS A TOTAL BULLSHIT TO SCARE BRAIN DEAD NPCS.
I am fucking tired of people defending the government, meanwhile they cry that are not "free"... FFS, not just say "fuck the gov"... DO IT!
I see only pussies and cowards everywhere, without balls...
IT IS BITCOIN OR NOTHING !
reply
Perhaps you are right. I fear I am so much an NPC that I am not willing to risk finding out whether you are right though.
My past experiences with disagreements with the government are that you end up getting screwed and it doesn't change a thing for the better.
But aside from this: businesses are a great model for channeling resources into building a thing. If people follow your advice here, I don't see how they run a successful business.
reply
You fear because you didn't paid attention to all my SN posts for the last 3 years now....
I posted so many material how to fight the gov and howto make it OBSOLETE.
But yeah, people do not want to listen me. They only want to ridicule me, yeah I am the crazy one, saying bullshit.
I am the one that challenged a whole gov in court and I won! How ? I rebut any of their claim of authority over me, with a simple question.
reply
I had not read about your successful court challenge.
I know people who refuse to pay US income tax because they claim it is unconstitutional. It's a giant headache for them. And sure they aren't in jail, but they spend so much of their time dealing with the mess it creates.
I still maintain such a stance is a nonstarter for a business.
reply
I posted this link over hundred of times on SN....
It explain so easy how to rebut the IRS
https://www.losthorizons.com/BulletinBoard.htm
I still maintain such a stance is a nonstarter for a business.
That is exactly what govs want: obedient slaves.
Nobody should dare to challenge them. Just obey.
But yeah... we want freedom !
Fuck freedom, let's be obedient instead.
reply