My dream died, and now I'm here www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKiBlGDfRU8

2480 sats \ 22 comments \ @ek 11 Apr culture

My dream died, and now I'm here

This is a story about several topics I am interested in discussing.

Women Rights

For all that you know about me, I am probably not a woman so maybe I "have no right to speak about this" but I definitely agree with her last sentence in the quote that follows.

My experience of how other women think or feel about getting treated differently (with assumingly good intentions) is low. Most of my little experience comes from my undergraduate years together with one of my best friends. She absolutely hated Girls' Science Day. It made her feel patronized iirc. She could stand her own ground (even in verbal and physical fights, don't ask me how I know lol) and didn't need anyone to help her with anything (except debugging python virtual environments). She also had absolutely no problem with studying computer science with mostly men. She even liked that: she mentioned she can easier be friends with men than women anyway.

So I wonder ... what do other women think about women-exclusive stuff? I am really interested since as mentioned my experience is rather low. I almost want to ping the (few) women on SN that I know but I will not since that's exactly what I usually avoid: treating people different just because of their gender.¹ I'll just hope that if they (or any other women that doesn't mind too much to reveal her gender on the internet) see this post, they'll respond.

I wasn't offered a job because I am a woman. I'm not just assuming that's what happened; I know it because they explicitly told me. The head of the Institute said that since I'm female, I should apply for a scholarship that was exclusively for women in the Natural Sciences. This way, the Institute wouldn't have to cover my expenses.

It makes sense, doesn't it? So, I applied for the scholarship and, indeed, received it. However, this scholarship doesn't come with any benefits like pension savings and health insurance. I know that might sound very German, but these things are important to us. Furthermore, I was frequently reminded that I wasn't actually employed by the Institute; I was just there because of this scholarship for women, which was indeed the case. This is one of the reasons I'm against programs or positions that are exclusively for women.

I think that treating women differently just reinforces the prejudice that women are less capable than men.

Perverse Incentives in Academia

Funnily, this is also a story about a woman standing her ground against academic bullshit:

The next problem was that the head of the Institute made a lot of money selling textbooks. He wrote very little of these textbooks himself; rather, he gave assignments for parts of the books to students and posts. This is why, in case you've ever wondered, these textbooks are so discontinuous and partly repetitive.

He expected me to also work for him, to which I said no. I was then ordered into his office, in which he gave me a very angry speech, accusing me of not being loyal to all the other students who did their part. I told him that I was under no obligation to work for him and didn't care what the rest of the students were thinking. He got angry, and I left after him. He started shouting that I was fired and physically shoved me out of his office.

True story: the irony is that he couldn't fire me because, if you remember, he had refused to hire me in the first place. I was paid by that scholarship for women, and that wasn't managed by the Institute but by the office of the University president.

I'm not just telling you this because it's entertaining; it was also a rather rude awakening. It made me realize that this institute wasn't about knowledge discovery; it was about money-making. And the more I saw of Academia, the more I realized it wasn't just this particular Institute and this particular Professor; it was generally the case. The moment you put people into big institutions, the goal shifts from knowledge discovery to money-making.

The Role of Government in Science

Where did we go wrong? Why is academia so dependent on government money? Is this a "fiat thing" as many probably like to quickly say?

It seems like this wasn't always the case. I did not have the time to dig into academic history enough to find a good answer to that question myself yet though.

But you get used to this kind of situation, and the overhead isn't even the real problem. The real issue is that the easiest way to advance in academia is to pay other people to produce papers, on which you, as the grant holder, can put your name. That's how academia works: grants pay students and postdocs to produce research papers for the grant holder, and those papers are what the supervisor then uses to apply for more grants.

The result is a paper production machine in which students and postdocs are pushed through to bring in money for the institution. Most of that money comes from your taxes.

Transcript generated by youtubetranscript.com and then piped into ChatGPT 3.5 to fix errors. Therefore might not be 100% accurate so listen to the original.

This means I am a proponent of hitting back with equal force if a woman hits a man, lol. But I am not sure if I personally would actually hit back. I think I would just shove them since I do sense some kind of biological programming to protect women inside me. But I also sense how easy this is to abuse. ↩

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566 sats \ 4 replies \ @elvismercury 11 Apr

But you get used to this kind of situation, and the overhead isn't even the real problem. The real issue is that the easiest way to advance in academia is to pay other people to produce papers, on which you, as the grant holder, can put your name.

I don't have much to say about what the internal experience of women is like, but this quote is true enough. It's worth saying, though, that academia is lot like the rest of life in this way -- there's a system of incentives, and an ecosystem to figure out how to maximize, and some people are really good at it.

Just like you might have a friend who had the same amount of money as you but who owns ten rental properties because he figured out this was a good way to use his skills to inhabit the system effectively, certain people really have figured out the points of leverage in academia. They know how to manage a big research group, crank out papers, get grants. Not everyone can do this. Some "normal" academics toil away, trying to do it the "right" way, and usually suffering.

Whatever the system, somebody will figure out an effective way to maximize it, and what they do will often not resemble what you thought the system was supposed to be doing (in this case, educating the public.)

173 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 11 Apr

@kepford had a post #500465 about this recently. In a bureaucracy, those who advance the stated goals of the bureaucracy (scholarship and education in this case) eventually lose out to those who advance the bureaucracy itself.

160 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek OP 11 Apr

Whatever the system, somebody will figure out an effective way to maximize it, and what they do will often not resemble what you thought the system was supposed to be doing (in this case, educating the public.)

I haven't made this connection before, but thanks to your comment I see how true this is now: Even gamers suffer from this.

I think this phenomenon is very related to Goodhart's Law:

If you start to measure how many papers are produced to measure education or how many points players made to measure fun, they cease to be good measures.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @elvismercury 11 Apr

I think this phenomenon is also very related to Goodhart's Law.

Yes! Good connection. A lot of weird stuff bundled together.

Here's the most ridiculous example I've ever heard of for the sheer mad stupidity of how this works.

27 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Apr

Here's the most ridiculous example I've ever heard of for the sheer mad stupidity of how this works.

This reminded me of how I never understood what I read when it was my turn to read out loud in primary school.

I always had to read it again on my own.

220 sats \ 4 replies \ @Coinsreporter 11 Apr

This is an honest trade.

Yes, she did the right thing by coming to youtube and and becoming self employed. The academia is full of crooks in higher education even here in India.

Leaving at side that she didn't get the job because she is a woman, I agree on most other parts that she discusses in the video. Here, if you wanna do PhD. which I am pursuing myself currently, doesn't even require you to write any synopsis or thesis, but you can simply but it and the money goes to the guide professor.

But, overall it's sad but true with her, except that she was just overreacting about academia being so 'overhead'.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek OP 11 Apr

except that she was just overreacting about academia being so 'overhead'.

Do you have a license for that thought?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Coinsreporter 11 Apr

What license are you talking about? May I please know?

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek OP 11 Apr

Don't worry, was just messing with you

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 11 Apr

Alright, my comment was worth it...haha

207 sats \ 2 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 11 Apr

This is the rare case where I actually got something out of reading the comments on the video, because so many of her peers at other institutions had the same experience, and it's like watching a group therapy session. Fantastic video (and looks to be a fantastic channel for science stuff, too).

99 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek OP 11 Apr

looks to be a fantastic channel for science stuff, too

Yep, one of those magic moments where the recommendation algorithm just works.

Still need to check out her other videos though. Her authenticity was what hooked me.

But probably also confirmation bias.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 11 Apr

Her other videos look great... looks like she lucked out big time by jumping to youtube instead of sticking to Academia.

116 sats \ 2 replies \ @anon 11 Apr

For most of my career I was a contractor. A side benefit of this was - the big corporations don't get brownie points for hiring a woman, if they hire a female contractor. So you know if that if you got hired, it's because you're good. It takes away that anxiety that women and minorities can feel - that they're explicitly being hired because of their status. A DH - Diversity Hire. And I think much of the time, it's true - they're at least partly hired because of their gender, in IT anyway.

Another benefit of being a contractor - even though I worked in the largest corporations, I never EVER had to take a DEI seminar or anything.

Anyway - especially now that I have boys, seeing all the girls scholarships, girls code camps, etc, really rubs me the wrong way. I think it's blatantly discriminatory. And I think it's actually starting to fade away, at least I hope so. I do think race-based discrimination is still fully in force.

I've often thought that if I need a doctor, I'm maybe going to favor an Asian doctor, because they're actively being discriminated against. The theory is that the Asians have to be better. As opposed to other racial minorities, who have discrimination working for them.

154 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 11 Apr

I became a contractor/consultant when the company I worked for was acquired by IBM. It freed me from all their BS, including salary caps based on seniority and all the HR nonsense.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 11 Apr

I left "higher-ed" for the same reason.

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 11 Apr

Being a woman, I can relate myself to most things she said. I was also denied the same job twice because of feminity.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 11 Apr

I think that treating women differently just reinforces the prejudice that women are less capable than men.

This also adds fuel to those weak men than hate women. It fuels more prejudice undercuts the hard work of those it claims to help. It might feel and sound good but I believe it causes harm to those it claims to help as well as the rest of society.

If a function can be performed by a discriminated class overtime a free market rewards greed and punishes bigotry. Those evil men that hate women have to lose money to maintain their behavior. Handicapping a group is an admission of inferiority on an institutional level. That's not to say their is an inferiority but an acceptance of a perceived one.

Academia is not the real world. I believe a reckoning is coming and should be obvious to anyone paying attention for at least the last 15 years.

Where did we go wrong? Why is academia so dependent on government money?

It's not just money, although that is a factor. The real truth is the iron law of bureaucracy is at work. I would say that the government money has prolonged a system that would long have been destroyed, improved, or replaced by free market forces. Some might contend that all universities are not public nor funded publicly. And that's true. However, all universities that want to be accredited have to go through an accrediting process. And part of this is to allow them access the student loan programs so that they can have a crop of customers. And I would argue that the student loan system is what has kept these universities going as well as created many of the problems that we see today.

Academia is a fantasy world. It isn't dealing with the same problems that most businesses or service providers deal with. They are insulated from them by government money. So yeah, Fiat is a key problem.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 11 Apr

what do other women think about women-exclusive stuff?

Like you, I am also probably not a woman, but my wife probably is. I know she likes women's only spaces, like gyms for instance.

I'll run this story past her later to find out what she thinks.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlueSlime 14 Apr

Yes Sabine is legit a brilliant scientist. She is knowledgeable in many subjects but mainly physics research.

This video is important but it's a side rant of hers compared to the rest of her content.

My dream died, and now I'm here

Women Rights

Perverse Incentives in Academia

The Role of Government in Science

Footnotes