I've been thinking the same thing. I haven't thought it all through yet but there is strength in numbers. If they do attempt this path it is important to remember other examples of peaceful disobedience that have worked before.
The first one that comes to mind is home schooling. It was once illegal in most US states but so many parents did it that the state slowly "legalized it".
The US government tends to follow this pattern. They did it with bittorrent and Covid. They make examples to scare the public into compliance. They don't tend to try to enforce things that are impossible to enforce at scale. They depend on compliance and self policing. Translation. Stay strong. Live as free as you can. Consider the tradeoffs and don't become a target. There is strength in numbers. We need to make it hard and painful for them to come for us.
There's a hell of a lot of upside in this advice. Or maybe even more nuanced: be very low-down on the list of targets. In practice that's worth a lot. Kind of the spirit behind my question here.
Yes. There are examples. Current state marijuana laws contravene Federal law and everyone ignores it. They would really have a tough time trying to track lightning nodes worldwide. They would need to print lots more fiat for the effort.
Yep, that's a great example. I'm kinda surprised at how fast things are changing on marijuana. Its also a great example of state nullification. Its one of the more hopeful examples of federal over-reach push back.
Another reason why I run a node and pay out the wazoo for fees. A simple and easy way to buck the system. Not everything is about profit and how much money can I make on this.
Is there a logical argument that differentiates a lightning network node from a World of Warcraft or Fortnite server? Does "unlicensed money transmitter" just mean anything we dislike?
There are more gamers that bitcoines... if they attack the gamers, they lose more votes... it's their game, "how we get votes?". We are a target because they think we are an easy one, they have no idea, like always.
Not sure if you studied enough the Silk Road case. This is similar to it.
Gov agencies were using Ross from the beginning, and now that's why they put him in jail for life so he cannot talk.
Gov agencies create "a problem", then wait for the reaction/evolving etc, then come up with a "solution".
I am suspicious that samourai team was involved from day one in this operation, helping gov agencies for years to accumulate data, create tools and also create the false impression of "privacy". They are capable to do that and also the meanings.
Now, I do not have enough information about the samourai guys being involved, but even if they weren't involved, they could be used as patsies. We do not have enough information but is possible.
This whole case stinks...
The goal is to hit hard in Bitcoin community. They want Bitcoin to be a "compliant token" run by ETFs.
I believe that this is correct. Maybe the names and faces are incorrect but THE GOOD GUYS AND THE BAD GUYS ARE THE SAME GUYS in the Hegelian Dialectic.
In my case I have to act with action that I think is correct and avoid contact or action with players who seek to trap via machinations. You can do a little over think. Or I can. We should do good work that is helpful and not harmful. Bitcoin is good work. Lightning is good work. Privacy is good work. Evil is the work of central planners.
Not even remotely close, he was running a custodial API service
also what is with everyone's lack of understanding that a charge/investigation is not the same as a court ruling? there's no case law re: Lightning anywhere
I have that understanding.
But in places where I am from, getting into custody means that their job is done for 99%.
And here I am pretty ready to expect very adversarial scenario.
Ignoring the law for a moment... as a business you should not want custody just because we're dealing with hot wallets... customer funds WILL be stolen or otherwise lost because software isn't perfect. WHEN (not if) that happens, it could end your business or worse, your reputation.
Custodial is in the end, and the only business in it is regulatory arbitrage based on faulty risk assumptions.
Everything about the service they were running was bad, he's probably lucky he was spooked off of it before something really bad happened.
Smaller lightning nodes might thrive in a scenario where the state clamps down on larger entities. I’m hopeful that dual funding, splicing and e-cash integrations improve the network even in wartime.
Authoritarian pressure from the looters may result in a more distributed network of pleb node runners that finally get “yield” for supporting the lightning network.
Yes, that would improve decentralization and might be healthy for the network. Still, I hope we all don't start taking sides and deeming certain players or use cases bad. For example, LN advocates expressing happiness that Samourai gets attacked because they don't like conjoins. Or small nodes attacking rich LSPs. We're all under attack unjustly. If they don't knock on your door today, it might be next week.
My "friends" wholesale "customers" are scared, they do not want to pay in Bitcoin at this time, this is a reality, they read the news, true or not, as usual for a while this new development will, once again stop my B2B transactions.
Yes I'm all for NOT using fiat of any kind, but that is not realistic right now, at best some, repeat some (a very few) are still moving Tether back and forth on AQUA to quickly transfer to BTC and do some small (under severn hundred dollars USD comparison lightning transactions, but they're scared.
And of course I told them a while back to use wallet of satoshi "it's easy" now it's no longer supported in USA, which "they" immediately feel is a red flag, they view it as not safe.
Merchants as usual we adapt in seconds, but it is frustrating and a waste of time to spend time discussing with them who is next, what will the government do next ?
Yes, I know "nothing will stop Bitcoin", but running and import, export, wholesale business is full time in an extremely competitive World, with fiat around the World taking a beating, which is used to compare for products versus the USD as a step one barometer. Second is in SATS, but seems like no matter who will be the next President, absolutely everyone seems to be against and are trying everything possible to interfere.
Actually I'm a positive, active person, my gut feeling is to just increase my dealings OUTSIDE of the USA. Forget about using Bitcoin in the USA for now.
Some, repeat some Countries will still use Bitcoin in some B2B transactions, I'm not talking about buying a cup of coffee (B2C).
As an example for the next fe days I am buying and selling goods NOT just what is on my main website, but from Merchants in Asia, Eastern and Western Europe, Africa.
Yes some a very, very, very little Lightning, but and this is the sad, frustrating main part........ My B2B customers are afraid of their local governments stop allowing BTC in anyway.
Okay, so let me get this straight: Bitcoin is NOT money (by their standards) but operating Bitcoin-transmitting software is "unlicensed money transmitting"?
This hung me up for a long time. Coincidentally, I took a CLE course 2 days ago. It is well settled law in the US that for money transfer services, transferring anything of value qualifies, and specifically "cryptocurrency".
In my sincere opinion, I think this is a good thing for LN.
Now all those obsessed coinjoiners will look to the LN with other eyes.
Finally they will see the LIGHT...ning.
The crackdown is being done this way to scare normal people away from Bitcoin. Make it seem illegal to use Bitcoin and normal people won’t want to be associated with it.
I agree, but why? Is it just a coincidence that this happens months after BlackRock, run by Larry Fink, who is incredibly well connected to the government, gets their spot ETF? It seems like a blatant attempt to make sure bitcoin is controlled and run by Wall Street.
There is no way this can be a coincidence. If they can get everyone onto KYC exchanges and wallets that are subject to government regulations they can control Bitcoin and eliminate the threat to fiat currency.
I can even see them going so far as to issue “paper Bitcoin” not actually backed by anything.
Some LN service providers start building KYC features, for example UMA fucking around with LNURL and pressure with money some providers to implement their "clean LN", if I had to bet... they know something ahead of the rest.
This is an attack, that is clear, but bitcoin will survive.
Hmmm could be, no wonder Amboss was pushing their OFAC compliant thingy and UMA by the lightspark guys also offering a "corporate friendly" LN, guess the rest of us criminals will just need to hang out on Tor
Terrible take, it's great for the Lightning Network...
This hasn't even gone to court yet, and odds are in favor of the money transmission charge being dismissed because they never had custody of funds... this would be massively positive Lightning applicable case-law
1a) Lawfare is real, this is probably a psyop because it was always a honeypot... it's the Epstein judge to boot
The IRS was tagged in the announcement who did the bust, that's comms... comm's that infer the service would have been allowed to operate had they simply paid their tribute
Everyone that was told they are morons for using that honeypot now know the people that told them that were right
3a) Scamourai were one of the most vocal attackers of LN, without their lies their moron users can come to a truly private network and increase the overall anonset and regulatory DoS effect of LN
It took the state 10 years to move on this scale of an operation, it'll take years more to get a ruling... that's if the FBI/DOJ even remain in tact through 2025 ... their attempting to go after millions of lightning nodes when it took 10 years to charge 1 metadata node would just make them look inept
Seriously, I do agree with a lot of what you wrote. With #1, though, I think there is a high likelihood that we will see guilty pleas very soon. That's how it works in the federal system. Either one defendant will roll on the other, or some Russian oligarch will take a hit. Either way, plea bargains almost always involve guilty pleas to all charges.
They admitted guilt to money laundering on Twitter effectively, but that's a different charge from money transmission which is the presumed attack vector for LN
You're right in that psyops have meaning, this foreshadows something... an L for the devs can still be a L for the deep state and a W everyone else
From the Grasping At Straws Department, there is the argument that bitcoin never "moves". What is called a transfer is simply reassigning keys to identifiable bitcoin in the blockchain. FYI- judges really hate these types of arguments.