This is "censored transactions" in practice. The system fucks up and they get a do ever. It reminds me of the eth DAO mess. It also reminds me of the nickel market fraud of a few years back. Or the Robinhood mess when the gamestop boys beat a few hedge funds. Nobody cares about Goldman's trades a few days ago 1/2 hour before the release of inflation numbers.
357 sats \ 11 replies \ @Undisciplined 4 Jun
The article doesn't go into much detail about the nature of the "glitch", but this is the right outcome isn't it?
If the sellers had no intention of selling at that price, then there really was no agreement on making a title transfer under those conditions.
I take your point, though, that this grace is only extended very selectively and most people just have to eat it when a glitch happens.
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251 sats \ 2 replies \ @freetx 4 Jun
Related, these are good examples of why "smart contracts" are less useful in the real world than people imagine.
Most real-world contracts establish definitions and frameworks to align to mutually desired outcomes....they are not meant to cover every eventuality in an exhaustive capacity. The entire reason we have courts / arbitration is to handle such situations. Its often very murky and partial resolutions are common.
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34 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 4 Jun
ahhh some refreshing common sense. there are some obvious downsides to being unable to undo a fat-fingered transaction.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 5 Jun
Exactly. Bitcoin's decentralized and immutable nature is very useful for money but not for real estate, stocks etc because your need for protection of property rights over the latter is much greater than with bitcoin, which means you're going to be subject to some sort of legal system.
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132 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 OP 4 Jun
You're right about the sellers getting unfairly punished, but the situation is a little more complicated. This wasn't a "fat finger" problem. The market was going down. The only glitch was to the "circuit breakers" which artificially controls market action to begin with.
It's as if during the covid crash the lucky few would have to give back their $3000 bitcoin.
Now I see this:
https://fortune.com/2024/06/04/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-discount-deals-canceled/
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67 sats \ 6 replies \ @Undisciplined 4 Jun
The sellers could only be getting unfairly punished, if they never agreed to let their shares transact at that price.
If they did agree to letting them sell at these prices, then this is completely ridiculous.
It seems like something that might fall into the realm of implicit prices. Presumably, they outsourced the management of these shares in some way and didn't put strict explicit parameters in place.
There still might be a case to be made for reversing the sale. It's a bit like if you go into a restaurant and order a cup of coffee before seeing the prices. If you find out they're asking $100 for a cup of coffee, you can reverse the transaction even after they bring you the coffee.
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55 sats \ 5 replies \ @siggy47 OP 4 Jun
Yeah. I ran out of time to edit my last reply. I was under the impression it was purely a "circuit breaker" issue. That might not be the case. In the meantime, I see this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/03/e-trade-is-debating-whether-to-ban-meme-stock-star-keith-gill-from-its-platform-the-wsj-reports.html
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67 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 4 Jun
I was literally just telling my wife about how the GameStop saga was happening again. We both agreed that somehow they're just going to ban this sort of activity.
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113 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 4 Jun
Nothing infuriates me more. Meanwhile, no ramifications for this bullshit:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nickel-market-tumult-continues-what-investors-need-to-know-11647620536
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177 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 4 Jun
Wow. I didn't even hear about that, or if I did, I forgot about it. I was so outraged by all the Covid and military insanity, I didn't pay much attention to anything else.
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105 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 4 Jun
I couldn't believe how this story got so little attention. I know I have mentioned it a few times here before. I thought it would be huge. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Jun
The nickel market experienced significant turmoil in March 2022 due to supply concerns arising from the Russia-Ukraine war. Prices on the London Metal Exchange (LME) more than doubled, leading to the suspension of nickel trading for over a week.[1] The spike was exacerbated by a short squeeze involving Chinese producer Tsingshan Holding Group, which had a massive short position in nickel futures.[2]
The LME's decision to cancel trades executed on March 8, wiping out $3.9 billion in transactions, drew criticism from investors like hedge funds who had bet on rising nickel prices.[1][2] The exchange struggled to restore order, with prices hitting daily expanded limits for several days after reopening trading.[1]
The tumult highlighted issues with the LME's transparency and risk management, as well as the potential for market manipulation due to the concentration of positions held by a few large players.[2] It also raised concerns about the exchange's ability to function effectively during periods of extreme volatility.[1][2]
Sources
[1] The nickel market tumult: What investors need to know https://www.marketwatch.com/story/nickel-market-tumult-continues-what-investors-need-to-know-11647620536
[2] Nickel market short squeeze: Day drinking, 'Big Shot' and billions of ... https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/02/investing/nickel-short-squeeze/index.html
[3] LME Nickel - Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LME_Nickel
[4] August 2019 Commodities Performance Highlights – Tweets, Trade ... https://www.indexologyblog.com/2019/09/03/august-2019-commodities-performance-highlights-tweets-trade-and-tumult/
[5] The Boom in Battery Metals for EVs Is Turning to Bust - WSJ https://www.wsj.com/finance/commodities-futures/the-boom-in-battery-metals-for-evs-is-turning-to-bust-5630493c
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72 sats \ 2 replies \ @BitByBit21 4 Jun
The fiat system keeps working as expected. Luckily Bitcoin keeps working as expected too.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Taft 4 Jun
Yep, for now! But at some point, the fiat system will crash. The Bitcoin system won't!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitByBit21 4 Jun
100%. The eventual crash of the fiat system is a feature, not a bug.
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221 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 4 Jun
The game is rigged, and no one at the top is willing to take the L on it, would have been great PR if it was a few little guys and they honoured it and welcomed those people for finding value and acting on it, and just buy them out at the premium and let them take their W, BH has the cash
But no, F your settlement lol
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196 sats \ 1 reply \ @JesseJames 4 Jun
Shocker, we never saw this coming...lol the game is rigged, no sellers fault, they didn't authorize it, the system did. So let the system pay for the mistake. It's not like they don't have cash (just print some more). Tell me again how bitcoin is used for fraud only?
F stonks and the horse they rode in on....
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Jun
They should get some restitution. They should sue. They have a strong case
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88 sats \ 0 replies \ @zx 4 Jun
It's a reverse Coinbase.
I love how there is absolutely no information to explain the glitch.
No explanations offered equates to no trust in the data.
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70 sats \ 0 replies \ @kilianbuhn 4 Jun
I don't understand why anyone is surprised by this.
The T+2 or T+1 isn't a secret. It's public information that everyone on the market signed up for.
Still a bummer that the sellers don't reap what they sowed. If you don't have your algorithm under control, it's reasonable that you should pay the consequences.
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67 sats \ 4 replies \ @JuanMiguel 4 Jun
Only retards still invest(gamble) in stocks.
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23 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 4 Jun
I agree, except for the elite, who's gains are private and who's losses are socialized. They're not really taking a chance.
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67 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 4 Jun
Equity markets are the foundation of capitalism as we know it.
Would we still have smartphones if not for public companies like Apple and Google?
Stocks represent real businesses.
Bitcoin is money, stocks are investments. Money is used for saving and to facilitate trade, investment is what commits money towards the production of goods.
I wonder if there is a hypothetical, more ancap future, where equity markets are taken outside of the purview of the state.
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13 sats \ 1 reply \ @kilianbuhn 4 Jun
Owning stocks is the same as owning any business. Even under a Bitcoin standard your local italian restaurant 🏬 would be owned by someone, every factory would be owned by someone 🏭.
It's not inherently gambling, it's doing business. Of course you can gamble if you want - and I don't even think gambling is a bad thing - what's wrong with having fun at the roulette 🎲 table?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Jun
Most businesses fail. Very high risk.
I love gambling whether it’s sports, casinos or stocks.
Baccarat is my favorite casino game.
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75 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 4 Jun
Yup the ultimate ponzi!
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @02bcd3eeb0 4 Jun
If only you were allowed to take self-custody of stocks like in the old days all this market manipulation would suddenly become much more difficult.
Maybe in a bitcoinised world, stocks will just be some kind of company issued ecash.
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @riberet19 4 Jun
The system is a huge fraud, but this shouldn't come as a surprise to any of us who have come to Stacker.news, we know what the game is about...
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatsMate 4 Jun
ridiculous haha. In the end, through any centralized exchange, they can unilaterally undo whatever they want.
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @nikotsla 4 Jun
It's "their" game... op out is the solution.
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 4 Jun
Yeah I had no clue people bought at that crashed price. Such a shame the retail investors who saw an opportunity and bought get nothing
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 4 Jun
The little people always eat it.
The people on top can get the bailouts.
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @EverythingSatsoshi 4 Jun freebie
That's just how fiat world works. They gotta deal with it
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 5 Jun
Stock markets should move to 24 hours or something similar
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