Where are the tainted sats? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Where are the tainted sats?

2717 sats \ 29 comments \ @Scoresby 12 Jul bitcoin

I receive a 500k sat utxo from an address on the US OFAC's sanctions list.
I receive a 750k sat utxo from a kyc'd source like Coinbase
I use both these utxos to pay 500k sats to address A and 750k sats to address B.

According to chain analysis/governments/the Man where are the sanctioned sats?

Address A18.4%

Address B0.0%

Both addresses are tainted81.6%

38 votes \ poll ended

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133 sats \ 7 replies \ @Scoresby OP 12 Jul

With traditional bank accounts, I suppose the answer would be the whole account is tainted.

But with bitcoin's finite supply, doesn't this mean that before too long every utxo will be in an address on ofac's sanction list?

(If one tainted input means all outputs become tainted, the percent of utxos that are tainted will continually increase. It's contagious, like a disease or something, but no one ever gets cured)

193 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Jul

taint them all

84 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 12 Jul

I was just typing this in reply to your comment above:

It would seem to be our duty then to combine tainted inputs with as many outputs as possible.

We should make something like the ordinal people use, but for finding sanctioned utxos so that we can try to spend them as widely as possible.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Jul

You should be more worried about the dust attacks not the "sanctioned sats". It all goes to the simple question that seems nobody ask: "Who the fuck is the gov to tell me what can I do or not with my own money?"

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @falsefaucet 13 Jul

🌀

22 sats \ 2 replies \ @0xIlmari 13 Jul

That doesn't solve the "problem", just obscures the real beneficiary of a transaction.

You can still "taint" all outputs from a CoinJoin that included a "tainted" input. In fact, mixers make the "taint" spread that much faster.

So just screw the whole concept.

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @falsefaucet 13 Jul

My point is if you Whirlpool/mix, everything becomes tainted. And then there is no 'tainted'

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @falsefaucet 13 Jul

There is just corn

280 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Jul

Are tainted only when you go back to fiat. If you care about OFAC bullshit it means you ask for permission to use bitcoin.

I am not afraid of "tainted" coins but the people's belief that they need gov's permission to trade P2P with Bitcoin.

Send me all your "tainted" sats and I will take care how to deal with the govs.

45 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 12 Jul

I too can take care of the govs.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @flat24 12 Jul

hahaha🤣 the master always handing out sovereign individual pills. the best

178 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scoresby OP 12 Jul

Fair point, but I'm trying to get at the basic illogic behind these people who are trying to claim 1 sat != 1 sat

You can't really say the sats in any input end up in any particular output. So it seems like they try to say all outputs from a txn that has a tainted input are now tainted. The result is that there will come a point when most sats (if not all) sats are tainted.

85 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 12 Jul

yes, using LN you will break that trace, paying sat by sat. Think also about using MPP through multiple channels, with multiple routes. There's no way to find which sat belongs to which UTXO.

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 13 Jul

Tainted!! Let them be or send them to me!!

51 sats \ 1 reply \ @MiddleWay 13 Jul

Open a ligtning channel or peg-in into liquid. Problem solved.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 13 Jul

Liquid is awesome 😎

252 sats \ 0 replies \ @random_ 12 Jul

Are these tainted sats in the room with us right now?

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 13 Jul

Depends on their mental gymnastics I suppose, you could argue the newly created UTXOs aren't even the same funds!

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatsMate 13 Jul

Over decades, I don't think OFAC would keep track of these ones. For example if it is 500K of sats, and it is the year 2070 I don't think it would matter anymore.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @TwoLargePizzas 12 Jul

If we're going to talk about tainted sats I would like to understand what the risks actually are?

As far as I'm aware receiving money is not a crime. But it could be used to connect you to a crime.

Receiving money is also a taxable event. If you failed to declare it as income on your taxes that would also be illegal.

If you didn't actually commit a crime it would seem to me the risk is being falsely accused of a crime you didn't commit.

Don't get me wrong, the risk is certainly not zero. There's obviously corruption in the legal system. People do get caught in the crossfire sometimes. We also don't know what the future holds, some future political change could greatly increase the risk of receiving tainted sats.

In an ideal world I never want to receive tainted sats. But it seems to me the simple act of receiving them is not the issue. The risk is the surrounding evidence that connects you with a crime you didn't commit.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 12 Jul

I zapped you a tainted sat. Consider yourself tainted head to toe.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 12 Jul

Pls send more. I am not yet thoroughly tainted.

30 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 12 Jul

In this case wouldn't "the man" consider both tainted?

63 sats \ 2 replies \ @Scoresby OP 12 Jul

That's my guess, but then doesn't that mean the pool of tainted utxos will expand rapidly?

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 12 Jul

Chain-anal companies probably use some kind of taintedness score. A sufficient number of hops detaints the coin below whatever threshold the Man may need to set to declare his enemies terrorists.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 12 Jul

I would think so.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 12 Jul

Probably both. I wonder if they're tainted forever or after 10 hops they become "clean" again.

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 12 Jul

I think you should send a small portion of those sats to as many known KYC exchange addresses as possible. That way they provably received ofacked sats and have to deal with it...

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @NaOD 13 Jul outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.