E-cash Scenario: pick your mints
125 sats \ 8 comments \ @TheWildHustle 14 Aug nostr
Heres a scenario:
Imagine you have a nostr e-cash/Lightning Wallet and you would like to have a maximum receive balance of 20k split in between 5 mints that enable multipath payments.
Pick 5 mints below to store 4k sats each, the funds are automatically withdrawn to your lightning node at the end of the day.
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171 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 14 Aug
In fairness this method of personalized custody is more federated than the federatoor projects (federated custody is a hoax, there's no such thing technically speaking)
But it's still the wrong way to think about it...
First, a multi-path payment is not for multiple senders/recipients, you cannot split one 20k invoice into 5 recipient accounts (prisms are also a hoax, its just a custodial re-transmission)
Second, any account cannot be withdrawn on down to 0 because Lightning necessitates routing fees held in reserve, so you'll just end up with dust in all 5 accounts and bloating your effective fee rates 500%... very inefficient.
Third, consider that current designs are completely backwards and that's why it's all niche and doesn't work very well.
Debit-based design like NWC (and SN's new wallet direction, sadly) are irrational products derived from the theatrics of wanting to be perceived as non-custodial, despite still being completely trusted and achieving nothing but vanity.
If you take those backwards and unprincipled designs and sprinkle in overt and randomized custody like mints, it becomes even more of a mess.
This is why in ShockWallet we've laid the foundation for accounts, not because you'll diversify custodians for its own sake, but because you will maintain credit at services you use regularly and implicitly trust with a budget that may used automatically. If you give a service a budget, it's retarded to force it to debit remotely, you will just park it at that service.
Sats may accumulate at some services, or get drawn down, and that's where your wallet can offer automation to maintain thosse... not by every service having to reach into countless potentially unreliable sources.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 14 Aug
SN Damus siggy47 Sparrow LND
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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 14 Aug
It doesn't really matter if the funds are automatically withdrawn at the end of the day. What will be important for any mint is to have good liquidity in/out to be able to fulfill the demand.
What could happen in a MPP tx if one mint will not have enough liquidity?
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43 sats \ 3 replies \ @TheWildHustle OP 14 Aug
So in this scenario the answer would be none?
Which is fine. Just wanted to see what people typed.
I'm bullish on nostr and e-cash, but understand that TheWildHustle is kind of a crazy fool.
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67 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 14 Aug
ecash is something like additional to BTC LN, is not something that could force more the bitcoin adoption.
If LN doesn't work well, ecash the same will be not useful. Focusing too much on ecash but not on LN, will be a failure. ecash in the end is just a gift card. No more no less.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheWildHustle OP 14 Aug
ecash in the end is just a gift card. No more no less.
Much appreciated.
And a question,
Should we just avoid the e-cash stuff altogether because
  • The mints are untrustworthy
  • non custodial lightning UI/UX will improve
  • Satoshi's are better than e-cash
  • The point of bitcoin is to not trust third party intermediaries with the custody of your funds
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67 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 14 Aug
Satoshi's are better than e-cash
You can't compare something that is not the same thing. ecash no matter how fancy, private or cheaper to use is, will not be more than an IOU. Bitcoin can't be an IOU, never.
The mints are untrustworthy
That is irrelevant for Bitcoin, is an aspect between the user and the bank. For sure it will improve in time.
non custodial lightning UI/UX will improve
Definitely, people should have patience. We are soooo early.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheWildHustle OP 14 Aug
you will maintain credit at services you use regularly and implicitly trust with a budget that may used automatically. If you give a service a budget, it's retarded to force it to debit remotely, you will just park it at that service.
I was thinking something like that would be built with e-cash and the mints, I'll need to checkout ShockWallet, and thanks for the writeup.
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