3 Hours Not Using SN Wallet: My Impressions \ stacker news ~meta

3 Hours Not Using SN Wallet: My Impressions

4394 sats \ 83 comments \ @siggy47 24 Aug meta

Stopped using SN wallet this morning at 11:00am

My Set Up

I use SN primarily on mobile. I am on Graphene OS with a pixel 7 plus phone.

For receiving, I'm using a lightning address from Alby hub connected to my own node. I have a channel opened with Stacker News.

For send I started with LNC connected to my node through the Lightning Terminal app, then I switched to NWC through Alby Hub app.

My Impressions

My first choice would have been to connect via NWC through the Alby Hub NWC connect app first, but I still cannot change wallet priority on mobile. I believe @ek says this will be corrected soon.

I began receiving zaps without any issues. It was a little shocking getting lots of notifications of small 1-10 sat zaps. I haven't yet figured out how to turn off notifications for receiving via remote wallet. Also, I think new stackers need to be reminded once again by @Undisciplined, @Natalia and me that you earn more when you zap more.

Zapping did not go as well. A few minutes after zapping I got a failed zap notification. Then another. Then another. All my zaps were failing. I decided to detach my LNC wallet connection, which left my NWC Alby Hub connection next in line to zap. That worked much better.

Still, I have had a few failed zaps. I can't determine as of yet why some succeed and others fail. Overall, the Alby NWC is working better for zapping than the LNC using Lightning Terminal. Note- I have used this same LNC connection with my Zeus wallet, and it has worked fine.

Conclusion

I think some kinks need to be worked out regarding zapping, although the fault could lie with my specific connection.

Receiving seems pretty flawless using a lightning address connected to an always on node.

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179 sats \ 15 replies \ @grayruby 24 Aug

Thanks for the update. I look forward to testing out non SN wallet options next week. Ultimately, I would prefer to just stick with the SN wallet as it is most convenient but I understand that removing any uncertainty around money transmitter rules is best for SN. I think once best practices are determined it will be an easier transition and should be very easy for new folks.

284 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

That certainly would be simpler. Maybe the US Attorney for the Southern District Of New York will say "Sorry. We were wrong and we mislead everyone. We apologize" That's my fantasy. On the other hand, in the long run we will all be better off if we bite the bullet now and just refuse all custodial solutions. We can strive for real self sovereignty. I know there's a trade off in convenience, and it may slow adoption, though.

97 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 24 Aug

I know there's a trade off in convenience, and it may slow adoption, though. Yes, I'm also thinking about it. This may really impact adoption. But we'll see!

117 sats \ 9 replies \ @IamSINGLE 24 Aug

I agree that SN wallet is best for new folks. I'm a little doubtful for those who join SN post the change would not mind it. Many would be non-technical and they would find it difficult to implement it.

94 sats \ 8 replies \ @k00b 24 Aug

We'll do the best we can. The attached wallets today are the worst they will ever be.

The only other alternative is to KYC people which we will never, ever, in a thousand years, require, but we might give people the option to use a 3rd party custodian (who will KYC them) if they don't mind the surveillance and rugpull overhead.

113 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

Since @Alby is a presence here, it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to design a custom SN application for zapping and receiving zaps. They seem pretty good at easy UIs. Optional KYC also may make sense as a necessary evil. Maybe that prospect will give stackers the motivation to figure out an alternative.

100 sats \ 5 replies \ @grayruby 25 Aug

Do it Alby. I dare you.

99 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

Nothing is more effective than peer pressure by dare. If this doesn't work, you may need to resort to the feared double dog dare.

220 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 25 Aug

https://m.stacker.news/47976

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @1GLENCoop 25 Aug

I made a "I double dog dare you" video using zebracat.ai: https://v.nostr.build/1OJBnDM8LyRtXuT3.mp4

https://m.stacker.news/47984

view replies

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Alby 27 Aug

👀

163 sats \ 0 replies \ @saunter 27 Aug

We have hands full of work on Hub and our Mobile app.

Everything is open source so anyone can do it, even you!

83 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 24 Aug

Do you pay territory fees from SN wallet or generate invoice ?

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

I have been paying the invoice with an outside wallet since the wallet size was reduced to 100k, I think.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 25 Aug

SN wallet.

380 sats \ 16 replies \ @IamSINGLE 24 Aug

Also, I think new stackers need to be reminded once again by @Undisciplined, @Natalia and me that you earn more when you zap more.

You can remind the newbies as much as you want but only those will understand who care to read. Often new Stackers don't read in full.

507 sats \ 5 replies \ @TheMorningStar 24 Aug

I'm new here and I care to read and I've learnt that zapping more is essential part of SN mechanism.

121 sats \ 4 replies \ @Coinsreporter 24 Aug

Well done! You're doing great! I see you're running all guns blazing here! 😉 Keep it up! It's because of you, that I'm recieving a good amount of sats in referal too.

85 sats \ 3 replies \ @TheMorningStar 24 Aug

Thanks! You were 100% right.

Stacker News is the best platform.

It's so good that I can't even say that it's better than any other social media platforms.

Thank you @coinsreporter for showing me the right path. I've deleted all social media platforms except one which I have to for communication purposes.

13 sats \ 2 replies \ @sangekrypto 25 Aug

It's impossible to delete all social media platforms, how do you hear the latest news or see videos?

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheMorningStar 25 Aug

We all have TVs for that purpose.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @sangekrypto 25 Aug

ha ha..! That's right, TV is everything.

245 sats \ 7 replies \ @grayruby 24 Aug

I think it takes time for everyone to learn this lesson. I was only zapping 10 sats when I started. Now I zap comments 20-50 and posts minimum 100.

325 sats \ 5 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

10 sats? You were generous out of the gate! I was zapping 1 sat for probably the first two weeks. I remember making a complementary comment on a post without zapping at all, and getting gently corrected by an experienced stacker.

245 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 24 Aug

Yes, the same has happened with me when someone, I don't remember exactly, told me the importance of zapping and then I searched and a few articles related to zapping and understood the real value of zapping more.

443 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 24 Aug

It's kinda breaking for me! You started with 1 sat zap, can't believe it!

In my starting, I was mostly reluctant to even zap 1 sat to anyone. If they zapped me, then I zapped them back that too only 1 sat. I might have done to you this as well. But this didn't go on very long. Within a few days, I realised it's better not to think too much about being zapped on a comment or a post. I should rather shift thinking towards producing some fun and value content. A little shift in thinking worked wonders for me and I started zapping at least 10 sats, no matter the comment or anything I read have value or not.

64 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 24 Aug

Two weeks? You're a quick learner. I was doing it for at least two months.

53 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

It could have been longer. I try not to think about it too much.

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 24 Aug

Haha! Two weeks isn't quick to understand it. It's quite visible from the moment you land here. It's just we couldn't accept the reality for ourselves. We should all confess that in the beginning our avarice for hoarding more sats out of our generous Stackers had been a reality.

We all got greedy in the beginning. Didn't we?

94 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 24 Aug

I started with 1 sat!

It took me months to realise that I was doing it all wrong. Now, I'm zapping much more freely. 11 to 1000 anywhere in between. 100 sat zap is like minimum for value posts.

11, 17, 21, 101 are for comments.

But to the Stackers who I know in person, when I've brought them here, I told them to at least zap 10 sats. They are doing the same and I see they are very much successful from the beginning.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 24 Aug

Yes it’s an interesting incentive program here and takes awhile for some to pick up on it, some never do. I wonder how usage has been since the Madness challenges?

123 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 24 Aug

Yes, you're right.

Often new Stackers don't read in full.

The one reason that I can think of is most of the newly joined Stackers here aren't habitual of consuming value 4 value content.

Some may not be good readers.

Some don't have interest in reading long articles.

I can suggest that new Stackers should start with comments. They should read comments here and if they can, they should try to add up some value.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

Just a quick update. Everything still looks good after 19 hours. No failed NWC zaps. @ek, here's a small sample of my wallet logs, in case anything is helpful to you:

https://m.stacker.news/48025 https://m.stacker.news/48027

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 25 Aug

Looks good. Just wondering why preimage is undefined. Will check.

Thanks for all this testing you do! Very valuable feedback.

95 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

Weird question for @ek: Is there any reason that zapping a bot through NWC would fail? It happened twice on an @hn post. It succeeded on retry each time.

43 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 25 Aug

Mhh, no, it’s no different than zapping anyone else with a custodial wallet (you reminded me that I have to take care of @hn’s and @oracle’s wallet soon, too).

Do the logs say why it failed?

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 26 Aug

Good news. Those fails were regarding original LNC zaps that I would retry. I guess each time I retried a new invoice was generated, so I didn't account for how delayed the notification would be.

Anyway, I have still not had a single NWC fail. Honestly, the transition has been so smooth. I have stopped thinking about it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

The message offered a retry, and I accepted. The log doesn't reflect a failure. I shouldn't have retried. Next time, if there is a next time, I'll let it fail and send you a screenshot of the log.

311 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

Clarification- @ek just sent me a link to my wallet logs. I checked them and discovered that I have had 0 failed zaps on NWC. I was mistaken in my original post. I will update the post if I experience a failed zap, but I want to be clear that NWC zaps through my node connected with Alby Hub's NWC connect app has been perfect so far.

289 sats \ 5 replies \ @TheMorningStar 24 Aug

Thanks! learnt a lot of things about it in the last few days and now It's clear that NWC is better than LNC. I'll focus on NWC. Because I don't have a code for Alby Hub, are there any other wallets upon which I can use it?

69 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 24 Aug

What does NWC mean? LNC?

I meant to ask this last week

64 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 24 Aug

NWC = Nostr Wallet Connect (NIP-47) LNC = Lightning Node Connect

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 24 Aug

Merci buckets

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @bumi 25 Aug

Because I don't have a code for Alby Hub

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 25 Aug

To start a new Alby Hub is not really necessary to have a previous account. You can start a new one and get that authorization code for a new hub.

Is even better to start a new account, fresh, not linked with a previous custodial activity...

90 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 24 Aug

Maybe pin this comment if it isn’t already?

167 sats \ 0 replies \ @Golu 25 Aug

You guys are literally running Bitcoin and related classrooms!

I've gone through all comments one by one. I didn't understand them all. But I understood that you all are helping each other effortlessly.

88 sats \ 11 replies \ @ek 24 Aug

Still, I have had a few failed zaps. I can't determine as of yet why some succeed and others fail.

Have you looked into your wallet logs? Anything useful in there?

186 sats \ 10 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

I just carefully looked. I am very happy to say that NOT ONE of my NWC zaps failed. All of the failures were with LNC. I think what happened was I noticed some more failed LNC zaps after I switched to NWC. I was mistaken. BTW, that wallet log is great. I should have checked it before posting. I didn't notice it before. I am keeping this setup. I should know soon enough if any more of my zaps fail. So far, so good.

119 sats \ 9 replies \ @ek 24 Aug

Yeah, the notification that a zap failed can be delayed. We only know that it definitely failed when the invoice expires. I guess that was why you received some "zap failed" notifications even after you switched to NWC.

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @k00b 24 Aug

LNC is broken on master currently. It's not storing DH keys like you mentioned yesterday.

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @ek 24 Aug

Huh, weird, I tested it yesterday and I saw them getting saved thanks to fa881a1a which is included on master in 789d7626.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b 24 Aug

If you start from scratch, with it detached, not merely resaving an existing one, it fails for me.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 24 Aug

Mhh, I could swear it worked for me yesterday and at my first attempt today but when I started recording to prove, it's indeed not saving them even though we return the credentials in testSendPayment.

But I found another bug, PR incoming after confirmation.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b 24 Aug

I think I fixed it. I'll push a pr in a second.

view replies

75 sats \ 2 replies \ @TheMorningStar 24 Aug

Thanks for the information! As I'm learning about how to run my own own such articles are a real help.

Can we run our own node through Alby as well?

64 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

You can connect Alby to your own node. That's what I'm doing. However, it is apparently very easy to set up a node on the Alby Hub too. I think @Undisciplined is doing that. He might be able to give you more information.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 24 Aug

Alby has a pretty nice step-by-step guide. They're still having growing pains and a bunch of us got our channels force closed, shortly after setting up Alby Hub.

I still like it and think it's pretty simple, but if you don't need to set it up immediately, waiting another week or so, would probably be wise.

198 sats \ 6 replies \ @k00b 24 Aug

Thanks for the update!

ek fixed the priority issue. I'll deploy it today.

I haven't yet figured out how to turn off notifications for receiving via remote wallet.

We can fix that. I assumed people would be confused about where the sats went, but I don't want it to be annoying either.

I decided to detach my LNC wallet connection

It's a bit in the weeds, but the problem with LNC is that it can only support one connection at a time (e.g. it'd break if reused on another device or even another browser tab), so we have to open/close the connection for every zap and it connects slowly and unreliably.

We can do some browser magic to fix this, but in general, I'd recommend only using it if you don't have an alternative.

289 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 24 Aug

Zapped for visibility. I think people need to know about the ins and outs and tricks to get the smoothest experience. Being able to seemly zap and get zapped is critical to SN’s success, IMO

164 sats \ 3 replies \ @TheMorningStar 24 Aug

Thanks!

So, it means NWC is better than LNC? I should only focus on creating a connection through NWC only?

1263 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 24 Aug

https://m.stacker.news/47940

76 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 24 Aug

Yes.

75 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheMorningStar 24 Aug

Thanks!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

Thanks for the info. I think I'll keep this setup for now.

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 24 Aug

Traitor lol

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 25 Aug

Thanks for paving the way for us xP

43 sats \ 1 reply \ @MoritzK 24 Aug

Could you contact us at support@getalby.com so that we also get the few failed zaps to zero failed zaps?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

Looks like there's no need. I checked the logs and all my NWC zaps were successful. I am keeping this setup. If any fail I will let everyone know.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @leonidastouch 24 Aug

We want to experiment with not using Stacker News Wallet but it is beyond our ability but do not worry we will get there. We just don’t know when.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @thebullishbitcoiner 24 Aug

Thanks for sharing your experience. I look forward to transitioning away the SN wallet soon.

43 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 24 Aug

If you disable the notification setting sats are withdrawn from my account, those notifications will go away.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 24 Aug

Ah. Thanks. I disabled sats are deposited to my account That was my problem.

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 24 Aug

Interesting. I thought you were annoyed by X sats were withdrawn from your account notifications (which are marked with autowithdrawal or p2p):

I began receiving zaps without any issues. It was a little shocking getting lots of notifications of small 1-10 sat zaps. I haven't yet figured out how to turn off notifications for receiving via remote wallet.

43 sats \ 1 reply \ @purpurato 25 Aug

The title suggested it was a description of your withdrawal symptoms after 3h of not getting your SN wallet fix. https://m.stacker.news/48059

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 25 Aug

Thats an apt description if it ever happens!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satoshi__Nakamoto 24 Aug

Of course revoked

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Octopus 25 Aug outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.