5 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin 8 Jan 2022
I sure wish they would improve their UI.
The drop-down selection boxes aren't in alphanumeric order. These drop-downs are not searchable ("combo box" or whatever it is called), so you can't even filter the list.
And then, some payment methods will only show after you choose the country, and then click "Apply Filters".
Seriously?
They know how to do this ..., their Lend at HodlHodl product does this properly.
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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 9 Jan 2022
LN on HODLHODL will work only if buyer or seller will publish a LNURL where to be sent the funds. LN invoices will expire too quick.
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @nout 10 Jan 2022
Or Lightning Address or BOLT-12
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1 sat \ 8 replies \ @cointastical 8 Jan 2022
Lightning network ⚡ can be used, as a payment method, on HodlHodl. This means you can:
- Buy bitcoin and pay using LN ⚡ <-- i.e., swap your LN ⚡ for BTC on-chain
- Sell bitcoin and receive on LN ⚡ <-- i.e., swap your BTC for LN ⚡
same for Liquid network 🌊 -- Liquid Bitcoin is a payment method on HodlHodl (as-is Liquid Tether (USD), and Liquid CAD.
- Buy bitcoin and pay using Liquid Bitcoin 🌊 <-- i.e., swap your L-BTC 🌊 for BTC on-chain
- Sell bitcoin and receive Liquid Bitcoin 🌊 <-- i.e., swap your BTC for Liquid Bitcoin 🌊
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8 sats \ 1 boost \ 1 reply \ @supertestnet 8 Jan 2022
Super pumped that they added lightning support again. Do you know when they did that? I missed the news.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 15 Jan 2022
They used to have (custodial) LN as the trading currency. When that was enabled, you could list a SELL offer where bank transfer was the payment method, for example. So a trade for that involved no on-chain bitcoin transactions.
HodlHodl has not re-implemented that, they simply added LN as a payment method.
The hurdle for HodlHodl is that there's (currently) no easy way to escrow the LN without doing it custodial, and HodlHodl does not want to be a custodial platform whatsoever.
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4 sats \ 1 boost \ 5 replies \ @0260378aef 8 Jan 2022
Oh, that's fun. I'd like to know more technically about the implementation. I couldn't find any bids/offers on the site and can't see any technical docs (maybe they're there but in a few minutes, I couldn't find them).
HodlHodl is using 2 of 3 and holding a third key as escrow/arbiter, is that correct? For the LN case, are they keeping that model or somehow arranging a submarine swap construction? If the former, how are they doing proof of payment, exactly? If the latter (I doubt it), I'd be interested in the exact construction.
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @cointastical 15 Jan 2022
HodlHodl simply added LN as a payment method.
So the offers are all still just offers to BUY BTC (on-chain) or offers to SELL BTC (on-chain). Nothing changed -- seller's BTC goes into multisig escrow, buyer sends LN payment, seller releases BTC escrow. If there's a dispute where seller claims buyer didn't pay the LN invoice, that's a normal LN method to prove whether or not that is true (using the preimage).
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5 sats \ 3 replies \ @0260378aef 15 Jan 2022
Oh that's true, there's a subtlety: I was remembering the fact that you can't prove that you paid, and not someone else, (because others on the route have a preimage), but here that's irrelevant, because arbitration will only require proof that the payment is made, not that a specific person did so.
Hopefully we get more sophisticated in future, though I didn't expect it yet: there is no good reason not to use on/offchain swap markets for this kind of thing (they kinda already exist, but I don't think any are p2p(?)).
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cointastical 15 Jan 2022
The hurdle to providing on/offchain swap P2P is that there's (currently) no easy way to escrow the LN without doing it custodial.
If you see the "Crypto-to-crypto methods" of this list includes three P2P exchanges, but the two non-custodial, Bisq and HodlHodl, provide LN only as pmt method, and the remaining one is custodial ... they let you deposit and withdraw with LN, and you pay a fee (1%) when withdrawing BTC via LN.
Exchanges With LN:
https://github.com/cointastical/Exchanges-With-LN
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 15 Jan 2022
In reviewing that, ... it looks like Bisq does not support LN even as a payment method. There is a fork of Bisq, "Misq", ... or even Bisq 2.0, in-development that will handle multiple protocols, including LN.
https://twitter.com/flix1/status/1460579199601807361
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 15 Jan 2022
Like this?
https://chainmarket.etleneum.com/
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1 sat \ 0 replies \ @cryptocoin 8 Jan 2022
"Multisig P2P" sounds complicated.
What it means, specifically, is that HodlHodl can help if there is a dispute.
Having one of the three keys lets them either:
- Agree with the Buyer (and release the seller's escrowed coins to the buyer), or
- Agree with the Seller (and permit the seller's escrowed coins to return to the seller)
This way, HodlHodl doesn't ever have control of your coins in your wallet. For a transaction in progress HodlHodl has limited power (as described above) and nothing more.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 8 Jan 2022
When the following list was first created, HodlHodl was placed among those at the top, due to it being non-custodial and No-KYC:
P2P OTC Exchanges
https://cointastical.medium.com/p2p-otc-exchanges-e-g-localbitcoins-bisq-hodlhodl-etc-20f293a2c72e
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