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0 sats \ 14 replies \ @denlillaapan OP 4 Nov \ parent \ on: The Peculiar Phenomenon of Libertarians Supporting Donald Trump(Reason Magazine) Politics_And_Law
true dat.
If you're captured by the system, you are captured by the system. #wisdom
I was a vocal libertarian/ancap from about 1999 to 2012. The whole deal, reading Rothbard, Mises, active in Ron Paul campaign, etc..... Then I started to see the real problems with the 'movement'. Its best expressed by this cartoon:
Libertarians, as a group, are sort of permanently paralyzed. Because no candidate meets their qualifications, they perpetually sit on the sidelines....meanwhile millions of pro-socialist voters stream into the country who are not paralyzed. They are extremely active in pushing forward socialist vision. The results are quite predictable.
In the end, the poor libertarian will wind up like the man in the cartoon. Lost in his own detached world of naval gazing, pointing out abstract violations of his idealized worldview, while his brains are splattered on the floor.
This isn't a call for you to run out and love the political process - or even really believe it can work - however at the same time you can't "sit it out" since that winds up being a tacit consent of the ongoing creeping communism.
At the very least, you should vote in local elections, because those elections do matter. Your school board, sheriff, city councilmen, etc have a direct and measurable effect on your liberty.
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I don't entirely disagree with this.
What trips me up is the intellectual investment -- and, per Christopher Freiman, ability to discern -- how to vote against it.
For this election specifically, I found that somewhat easier but as a general rule -- not really.
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2024/10/no_author/who-will-i-vote-for-in-2024/
Also, cypherpunks write code etc; instead of bitching about political leaders, we could just opt out/make our immediate neighborhoods better.
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Also, cypherpunks write code etc; instead of bitching about political leaders, we could just opt out/make our immediate neighborhoods better.
Totally agree. If you can do something productive, like write software, do actual work within the community, etc, that is preferable to voting. That being said, it doesn't preclude voting either. The intellectual investment of voting is a barrier, but at the same time, it's okay to only vote on the issues that you know about and skip the others. Still better than ceding that power to radical communists and others
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The intellectual investment is exaggerated. There are simple heuristics such as voting against or for what the “enemy” is for or against respectively.
For example in California prop 34 was opposed by many radical left wing groups. I voted for it. If my enemy hates then I should support it
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Also, cypherpunks write code etc; instead of bitching about political leaders
Great point. Satoshi did 100x more for freedom than any politician could do.
Moreover, I sorta doubt that Trump is even going to be able to do anything meaningful due to corruption/deep-state. At the same time, COVID proved the importance of having sensible local govt.
My local Sheriff basically sent out letters saying: Don't ask me to send deputies to enforce mask / vaccine violations...nor ask us to enforce curfews...we will not be able to respond to such calls because we are too busy stopping rapes, murders, and robberies.
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Pretty much my point of view. I don't get to live in an idealized world, so I have to do what I can to live in the world that we've got.
Some people may be more equipped to opt out, and that's good on them, but others are more tied to the social structures that already exist and are captured by the state
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Idealized or utopian?
Libertarians and anarchists should read a conflict of visions by Thomas Sowell
It’s easy to opt out if you live in a nice safe neighborhood or have the financial means to. Most people are not so lucky 🍀
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I agree but too many residents take safety for granted.
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Yes, during my time as a non-voter, I will admit that I was smug about it. I mentally enjoyed that I wasn't participating. It was easy. I could criticize the system and all the normies who made it up and exempt myself from any responsibility.
I now see that as a big cop-out. As you say, we are forced to live the real-world. The real world is messy and complex and full of contradictory situations, but its the hand we were dealt and if we want things to improve we must engage.
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At this level I don't even know what is worst:
- a libertarian that became statist
- a statist that want continue to be a statist
you are truly a deranged mind
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Living in the real world and acknowledging that humans are weak alone so form into groups for strength and power and access to resources. Like it or not nation states are tribal grouping which project power and determine allocation of resources- equally important if not more so than free markets in terms of wealth distribution and opportunities available to individuals.
Go and live on an island or in a forest if you wish but you will not find it easy...and you will be vulnerable to attack from others if you have anything of value that they want.
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