Walked 30 mins to go spend Bitcoin... got to the resaurant and they had iBexPay? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Walked 30 mins to go spend Bitcoin... got to the resaurant and they had iBexPay?

2546 sats \ 38 comments \ @028559d218 6 Dec bitcoin

And ibex pay, as of last May (of 2024) has apparently suspended operations in the United States (but NOT in the rest of the world)!!!

To make a long story short, I was on a work trip and I checked Btcmap.org... 'oh wow' I thought 'there is a restaurant like 30 mins from here' where I can actually spend lightning "in the real world". From my own node! Cool!

'Let's do this!' I thought. I walked the 30 minutes to dinner to go pay in Bitcoin... 'this is going to be awesome' I thought. (I didn't want to pay for an Uber of course I work too hard for my $$$/sats for that crap!!!)

I get there, 'hey do you take Bitcoin?' 'Yes, yes we do, you scan this [laminated] qr code or... we also have a tablet thing!'

'Well I want to pay in Bitcoin lightning' 'Yes OK we have a tablet for this, the owner really likes crypto he says it is the future... 'And we can call the owner (the employee says) and make sure it is OK!'

'(Me) OK what does the tablet look like? Do you need help? Can you call the owner?' 'It looks like this, the owner has a tablet, here it says... 'ibex pay... we can do it like this'

'GREAT' I say. 'Well for now I'll just have a beer... and how about this item (something from the appetizers list) with bbq sauce on the side please?'

'Sure we'll bring that right out.'

[Drinks the cold beer and has the wings with the bbq sauce ;)] [A bit later after some tasty wings it's now time to pay]

Me: opens Zeus wallet connected to my own node. (Awww ya let's do this I think...)

'OK here is the total, you see here are the charges (like 15$) now you select the tip... and we just tap accept...'

The app gives an error message, says something like 'your account isn't valid check settings'

'Uh oh (says the employee) I have to call the owner we will find a way to fix' 'Cool cool' I say, 'Take your time no rush'

Around 10 minutes later the employee (who was being extremely nice) comes back...

'I'm sorry but we cannot use the ibex pay the app doesn't work in the United States'

Me, incredulous... 'so it doesn't work in the United States?' 'No, I'm sorry but the owner says he is working on a new system'

'There is, this like bar code you can scan here to pay also...' adds the employee.

I pull out my phone and scan the laminated QR code the employee showed, scan it w/ Zeus Wallet. It's literally just a static Bitcoin address that's been laminated (LOL).
Right now on-chain fees are around 1$... and for a 15$ meal this doesn't make sense. This is why we have lightning.
Plus this is not great for privacy for obvious reasons... this is why we have lightning.
Isn't like paying to a static address in person like... so 10 years ago????

'We also have cash and credit card' says the employee. 'I guess I'll just pay in credit card... but we, who like Bitcoin believe that Bitcoin is the future...' I add. 'Yes the owner says this too, that crypto is the future' says the employee.

I pay with the credit card, thank the employee for his time, and he asks if "I'll be back" and "where I'm from"...

I explain to him that I'm traveling for work but plan to be back! And so I will come back again because the food was good.

He thanks me again and says 'see you next time' and 'we hope you come back... maybe next time the system will work since "it's the future" he says... wow he is being nice.

And I leave and that's it.

From this encounter I have some thoughts:

First, WTF America? Really? You made ibex pay leave and due to 'regulatory uncertainty?' Why???
2nd, the laminated QR code is an improvement from not accepting Bitcoin at all... but it's not much better IMO. Lightning really is the way this should be handled. In addition, I have lightning accessible on my phone not on-chain UTXOs because why would I need them while traveling? For an appetizer at dinner that's not fair. 1000 sats fee to spend 15000 isn't economical obviously. I am all for Bitcoin adoption but not to the point of stupidity ok?
Thirdly... IBEX pay suspended availability in the US in May approximately... so either folks were paying to the static QR code (not likely) or no-one had tried to pay with Lightning for almost 6 months. The employee mentioned during conversation that he had seen 'some people pay in crypto maybe... less than once a week...' But considering there was no crypto support and only partial Bitcoin support it seems likely way less than that.
Fourth and I know what you are thinking... Why didn't I try to onboard the employee? Convince the manager? And explain to them how to accept Lightning?! You know, preach the gospel show them 'all those cool apps!'

Well because the employee clearly was a native Spanish speaker, with ESL and he kept referring to it as "crypto" and said he "knew nothing about it". Although he was very nice... trying to explain to him anything about Bitcoin Lightning, at that time, in that bar, would have been very very difficult if not completely fruitless.

The 'owner' wasn't there and wasn't accessible at all.. and honestly how hard is it to set up a BTCPay server or app, or mobile wallet on the tablet, or just a custodial exchange account? Trying to explain any of this to a random employee didn't make sense... and I'm not sure if it's the 'ethical' thing to do anyway to people who just want to sell a Beer and some Chicken Wings.

So my question is: How do we fix this?

There are many sophisticated discussions and people who care deeply about Bitcoin on the internet. Yet among the general public... even when Bitcoin reaches 100k there is almost complete ignorance, and it apparently (?) takes a long time for new technologies to go mainstream.

It's disappointing that ibex pay has had to leave the United States but continues to operate elsewhere. Maybe I could have had 'flyers in hand' about Bitcoin apps and lightning services... but I wasn't prepared for that and it's not fair to me. After all, Btcmap.org said that they took On-chain and Lightning Right???

Maybe. But this really wasn't that kind of bar and I shouldn't have to do this. It should be obvious for folks who come into contact with Bitcoin. After all, how many people (and this was a busy tourist area) have tried to 'pay in Lightning' if the payment processor has been unavailable since May?

It really feels like showing a 'new-model' Playstation to someone who is seeing the Nintendo 64 for the first time... they may be interested in learning about it but there is a huge gap as to what they know and what they 'see.' They are learning what "buttons are on the controller" and we are talking VR and Ray-Tracing. I'm not sure where we go from here we are kinda on the edge.

Thank you.

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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @kruw 6 Dec

At the very least, this sounds like a business opportunity for someone to replace the hole left by ibex.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

It sounds depressing, is how it sounds. Bitcoin is money not a speculative wallstreet plaything.

If you can't buy a beer with it, in the only place in the city where it is supposedly accepted... what is it good for, really?

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @bitcoinshooter 6 Dec

Aqua wallet is the easiest way for a shop to accept Bitcoin. It may take 1 minute to settle since it settles in L-BTC but it works. No KYC, no need to write a seed phrase down before accepting BTC.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @BallLightning 6 Dec

It is not the easiest. Things will become awkward after your customer drinks his beer and then you tell him that he actually needs l-btc not btc. And from all the wallets it's very possible that he doesn't have the liquid wallet

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

doesn't it convert... directly from lightning to liquid?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BallLightning 6 Dec

Hm... I don't know. Know i remember thant when i experimented with it I only conerted between onchain btc and liquid. And it required a few confirmations in order to proceed

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @stack_harder 6 Dec

in this case, the onus is really on the owner who maybe set up that crusty laminate card 7 years ago and never thought about it since and isn't paying attention.

I'm sure if the owner was there you could have shown him but ce es la vi.

I think you did your best, all things considered, and were courteous to the waiter.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

thx

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 6 Dec

I am all for Bitcoin adoption but not to the point of stupidity ok?

This!

Good story, good judgment call

10 sats \ 17 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

Perhaps the word 'stupidity' is poorly chosen. But it's not fair to folks advocating for Bitcoin adoption... to pay more in fees, to a static on-chain address... with all the privacy implications... just to say they 'paid for a beer' in Bitcoin.

Lightning is reasonably available and works, and that's what the venue should have had available in my opinion. Thanks

0 sats \ 16 replies \ @zapsammy 6 Dec

Perhaps the word 'stupidity' is poorly chosen.

retarded by mind control.

0 sats \ 15 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

Am I wrong though? Where is the adoption? NgU is not adoption.

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @ek 6 Dec

Where is the adoption?

Adoption will happen on the internet first on sites like Stacker News imo. Much easier for internet companies to adopt Bitcoin compared to brick-and-mortar stores.

21 sats \ 7 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

are we just that early then? at least to a MoE revolution?

because right now bitcoin is a store of value, but not a medium of exchange. in my opinion selling bitcoin for fiat is 'not' generally medium of exchange, it is a scam.

SN zapping for memes and good posts is more a MoE and that's what makes it so interesting (especially being lightning-based) but I'm not sure where else to find that.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 6 Dec

If we think it makes sense to compare the adoption of internet protocols (IP/TCP) to the adoption of bitcoin protocols (Bitcoin/Lightning), then yes, we are that early.

TCP was invented in the 70s, while bitcoin has only been around for 15 years. Current bitcoin adoption is more comparable to internet adoption in the 1990s, so basically the start of Web 1.0.

That might even be a generous comparison, as I’m equating bitcoin to TCP rather than lightning to TCP, which might be a more accurate analogy.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

So Bitcoin would honestly be around the year.... what 1995? 1996? Earlier?

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 6 Dec

Definitely pre-iPhone at least.

However, to be fair, bitcoin requires significantly less deployment of hardware to compared to the internet since bitcoin is mostly just software (excluding ASICs).

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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @zapsammy 6 Dec

i wud continue practicing with the best features of bitcoin software & hardware until u encounter someone who wants to learn, and be ready to dedicate plenty of time toward that one determined individual.

maybe it's futile to onboard normie businesses; let them go under, and then bitcoiners will eventually buy out the infrastructure and start fresh, the right way, and pay employees in bitcoin. someone will eventually have to start the businesses back up.

in short, more pain necessary.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

it's just that people have so little appreciation for thermodynamically-sound money. it's so exciting, so fantastic, so incredible and yes the price has been high and yes mentioned in the news...

but to the extent "normies" talk about it there is overwhelmingly 1) denial 2) confusion and 3) some sort of rejection of something 'new'. Its ******* staring them in the face, Lightning is good really good with a decent channel set up and still...

I don't know anyone personally into Bitcoin. No-one really into self-custody, and no-way someone as into as to have an account on Stacker.

It doesn't make any sense.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @zapsammy 6 Dec

how cud u find someone away from keyboard to meet with and talk about bitcoin? have you tried the orange pill app or a local meetup? one way u cud spend bitcoin is go out for drinks or lunch with someone who is stacking and still wants to keep dollars, pay them in bitcoin, and they pay in fiat. that at least gets u used to the bitcoin payments on the street.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

i tried that once and it was cool. someone bought 10$ from me in bitcoin (i paid for some beer)

but that was once in an extended period of time

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @zapsammy 6 Dec

i try to do that routinely, but often the other party buys me beer or coffee for free... must be out of respect that i try to limit personal use of fiat rails.

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @purpurato 6 Dec

You could've tipped the waiter to some custodial wallet like Wallet if Satoshi.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

never used wallet of sats myself. is it easy to set up? I think wos has left the united states last time I heard

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @purpurato 6 Dec

You're right, they're no longer operating there. It's very simple and UX is good. You could use an lnbits instance and offer something alike yourself.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @aS7017ur5 6 Dec

It's such a wicked thing.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 6 Dec

About what to do, why not leave a 4-star review on Google and say that the missing star is due to the lack of Bitcoin infrastructure?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

I'm going to update the info soon on btcmap

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 6 Dec

The basis of the fiat debt monetary systems power is its monopoly over MoE/payment. With Bitcoin potentially threatening that monopoly power the legacy fiat powers have pulled out all the stops to obstruct use of Bitcoin as a MoE/payment protocol. They have imposed taxation assessment liability upon every single payment you might make so this in one hit makes it impractical for most consumers and businesses to use Bitcoin as a means of payment. They have further threatened many businesses where they do accept Bitcoin as a payment option- often threatening to close that businesses banking access. They have imposed absurd KYC/AML compliance requirements. In short the fiat debt slavery bankers cartel do not want Bitcoin used as a payments protocol. They want it redirected into use as a speculative commodity- and they have largely succeeded in achieving this. Few Bitcoiners have even noticed, but this obstruction by the bankers renders Bitcoin more or less already captured and controlled- and most Bitcoiners, blinded by the speculative gains to date have not even noticed. Sly Bankers.

7 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

i see you read my post and yes... i agree based on experiences 'in-person' like the one above.

so what do we do about it? civil disobedience? Coinjoins? More privacy protocols? Embrace non-kyc? Monero?????

The entire point of having bitcoin... is to one day exchange it for something. If it's only to hodl forever then it might as well be lost/thrown into the ocean and at the bottom of the sea... gone.

Eventually, at some point, Bitcoin is to be exchanged for goods and services directly. If that good or service is good conversations and ideas... and some memes on Stacker then... great. Perfect.

If it's a beer and some wings or a cheeseburger, OK. Or maybe something bigger and larger great but exchange is the heart and soul of money and exchange for goods and services... is eventually the entire point.

And the necessity to go back and forth into/out of 'dollars' to 'exchange' Bitcoin is not right it is a strange perversion imo.

The exchange of Bitcoin for stuff should be direct, full stop. If someone wants to exchange bitcoin for fiat great THAT'S THEIR CHOICE but that should be OPTIONAL. We should be generally able to buy regular day-to-day items with btc... within its technical limitations of course. And just 'spend Bitcoin' period that's the entire point.

25 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 6 Dec

imo we just have to assert our right to use Bitcoin by using it- each to their own how to do this but we will need to fight on multiple levels. If enough of us do this we can succeed.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 6 Dec

honestly how hard is it to set up a BTCPay server or app, or mobile wallet on the tablet, or just a custodial exchange account?

running a business is probably already hard enough, so putting more effort into something that apparently "less than once a week" someone is going to use isn't worth it. it's not just "download an app": you need to teach your employees, look into compliance because you don't want to go to jail for nerds, maintain it, learn about self-custody etc.

How do we fix this?

the owner could look into BOLT12 and laminate that

Yet among the general public... even when Bitcoin reaches 100k there is almost complete ignorance

there is equal ignorance coming from bitcoiners about how fast adoption should be or how easy it is

After all, Btcmap.org said that they took On-chain and Lightning Right???

did you update the site with the new information?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 OP 6 Dec

I didn't update it yet... but I will.

I have before and I love btcmap

edit - if the business-owner doesn't have any more interest than that... I'm pretty sure Bolt 12, which is still experimental, is going to be too much for them honestly.