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Earlier We Who Wrestle With God posts: #782630 #787035

Moral orders are not arbitrary.
We talked about this briefly in the earlier commentary posts ("The Prophets of Baal Were Executed". One cannot believe simply whatever one wishes to believe, and hope to successfully live out one's life.
In July, I wrote a thing for the Mises Institute (shout-out to Jordan Bush and the Thank God for Bitcoin crowd):
This allegory has stayed with me for months: freedom isn't libertine or absence of obstacles, but rules pertinent to one's nature. "The validity of a given worldview," writes Jordan Peterson in the book, "is therefore anything but arbitrary. Instead, it is dependent on or mirrors the accuracy with which it reflects the natural, social, and psychological world."
I thus found p. 18 to be crazy powerful. Here's the full page, in all its Nietzschean beauty:
Man’s dominion over the earth must be SUSTAINABLE; “must make what is good still better.” THIS BIT (on p. 9) resonates:
I remember Allen Farrington talking about this but applied to finance/companies, in his "Capital in the 21st Century" piece from earlier this year: Profit, not merely in an accounting sense but in increasing capital is needed because it's the "only sustainable way" to run a business.
Something similar is going on here: For humans—and humanity—to flourish sustainable, we must find/discover/uncover good rules that fit our human nature. Reality matters.
I'm pretty sure we'll be presented with a few (if not, check the previous two books—lol!), and in the first 50 pages we get quite a few singers about men and women and their various domains (#801615). Nothing like controversy, eh.
Anyway—enjoy away, Stackers!

P.S., sorry these posts are taking forever. The book is dense af and I, like all you blessed souls, have other superseding commitments. Also, there's no rush; these 500 pages will take the time they take.
Oh man, I didn't realize you had even started this series already. Is there a way to subscribe to a series of posts? I've been listening to the audiobook.
Anyway, yes, Jordan Peterson's first major point is that we cannot flourish without following rules which are consistent with our nature and consistent with reality. This, indeed, is a very biblical teaching as man and woman were made in the image of God and given dominion over the earth, to work it and to keep it.
Yet, there was one rule which was to avoid eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and by violating that rule we became like Gods unto ourselves: determining what is good and what is right in our own eyes.
And yet again, this was contrary to our nature because although we are made in the image of God, we are not God, and it is not we who determine reality, morality or purpose, it is God. The original sin of Adam and Eve was, in a sense, to rebel against God's moral order (i.e. the true morality that is consistent with our nature), and to try and create our own.
I wonder though what libertarians would think of all this. I think the conservatism represented by the DailyWire and Jordan Peterson is actually quite at odds with libertarianism, despite the shared distrust of government overreach.
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Maybe the most relevant point about libertarianism here is that it is not intended to be a totalizing moral philosophy.
Properly understood, libertarianism is a legal philosophy and as such is concerned with the specific matter of when force is justified in human relations.
Many other moral frameworks can work with libertarianism, provided they don't call for expropriating or attacking peaceful people.
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Indeed, a little bit.
There's the stereotype of libertarian while young but conservative when matured. Lots to unpack there. Also, "conservatarian" is a phrase I heard today lol
As for your comments, hell yes! Lots that passed me by and things I didn't pick up on. What else did you find useful from the first 50 pages?
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I should probably get a copy of the book too because I can't remember as much from just listening to audio, let alone remember what pages.
But I distinctly remember him talking about how after executing the prophets of Bhaal, rain returned to the land, and I thought of how although we wouldn't execute people these days (we don't live under the Old Covenant anymore), we still need to somehow purge the influence of those who "sow moral chaos." Which, in my mind, means we need to bring back moral and objective standards to academica (the closest thing to prophets these days are the professors)
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yes, precisely. I felt that one deep in stomach: people have to be "executed" for their transgressions.
Fuck.
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I'm way behind on JP. I read 12 rules but haven't revisited his books. They are on the back burner somewhere
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I recommend watching or listening to his Biblical Lecture Series and Maps of Meaning. Those are works of immense brilliance.
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Have you seen his new series diving into the Gospels? I was curious about that.
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No I haven't. I'll have to get to that. I always enjoy his break do6of Bible stories
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I haven’t seen it yet either.
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His suits are awesome.
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indeed. Dimitri, the crazy Russian. Unbelievable https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAncGm-9S3I&ab_channel=JREShorts
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Yeah, he had a series made. They are so iconic.
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What's inside them, not so much.
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