SN resolves to go noncustodial on Jan. 3rd

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SN resolves to go noncustodial on Jan. 3rd - FAQ & AMA

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

So, what happens to the sats in my wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

So I don't need to panic because sats in my wallet after Jan. 3rd will remain available to withdraw just like they were on Jan. 2nd?

Yes, that's right.

If my sats remain available to withdraw, then what changes on Jan. 3rd?

To zap with real bitcoin and be zapped with real bitcoin, you'll need to attach an external lightning wallet for sending and receiving respectively:

If you want to send real bitcoin to other stackers when you zap them on SN, you'll need to attach an external sending wallet.
If you want to receive bitcoin when you're zapped on SN, you'll need to attach an external receiving wallet.

If I don't have or want to attach external wallets, what happens to the zaps I send and the zaps I receive after Jan. 3rd?

When you zap someone else, you'll send Cowboy Credits and they'll receive Cowboy Credits.
When someone zaps you, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.

What are "Cowboy Credits"?

SN will accept Cowboy Credits as payment for everything it accepts sats for (e.g. posting fees, territory fees, even donations). You can also send them to other stackers as zaps.

So the only difference between Cowboy Credits and sats is that I can't withdraw Cowboy Credits?

That's right. That's the only difference.

What happens to rewards and territory revenue after Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. Rewards and territory revenue will work the same as they do now.

Even if I don't attach an external wallet?

Yes, you'll receive "Reward Sats" which (like all custodial wallet balances) are not to be mistaken as truly yours until you withdraw them. You can also buy Cowboy Credits with Reward Sats if you choose. The only real changes to rewards after Jan. 3rd are:

Reward Sats can't be zapped to other stackers
Reward Sats are subject to the following magic words, aka terms and conditions:
- From time to time, Company may, at its sole discretion, offer and provide prizes or awards of BTC ("Reward Sats") to individuals or entities based on Company initiatives, promotions, or for other reasons determined by Company. Company reserves the right to issue (or not issue) such Reward Sats to any person or entity, at any time, and without prior notice. If you are selected to receive Reward Sats, Company will notify you and will transmit the Reward Sats to your account. In order to claim the Reward Sats, you will be required to set up an account, and may be required to provide certain personal information, including but not limited to, a valid Lightning wallet invoice. Failure to provide accurate and complete information may result in the forfeiture of the Reward Sats. You acknowledge and agree that you do not own, and shall have no right, title, or interest in any Reward Sats until such time as the Reward Sats are successfully transferred to your designated Lightning wallet. Until the transfer is completed, all rights to the Reward Sats remain solely with Company. Company makes no guarantee regarding the timing or availability of any such Reward Sats.

Can I zap other stackers my Reward Sats?

No, without an external sending wallet, you can only zap other stackers Cowboy Credits.

Do Reward Sats, or any of these changes, involve KYC or so-called "soft" KYC?

No, they do not.

What if I receive sats to my SN lightning address after Jan. 3rd?

If you've attached an external receiving wallet, those sats will be non-custodially proxied to your receiving wallet by default. Should you choose, you can disable proxying in your settings and receive sats directly, exposing your receiving node's pubkey.

If you haven't attached an external receiving wallet, or disabled both proxying and direct receives, you'll receive Cowboy Credits.

I have more questions about Jan. 3rd. Where can I ask them?

In this thread. Ask me anything.

I'm a territory founder and this change makes me regret paying for or purchasing a territory.

Please email me.

I'm having a bad day, week, month, year, or life. Where's the best place for me to make you miserable too while pretending that this post is the cause?

In this thread.

I'm miserable but also sanctimonious so I'd like to write a eulogy for SN that you'll read. Where's the best place to do that?

In this thread, but it might be more fitting to write it on nostr or X and tag me.

Will SN ever offer a custodial lightning wallet again?

We may eventually partner with Zebedee and/or Strike and/or whoever to offer a 100% OPTIONAL integrated and regulated custodial wallet, but that will happen well after Jan. 3rd.

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

This is a repost of an earlier announcement. See #731188 and #722833 for previous discussions.

1111 sats \ 1 reply \ @rizful_com 1h

We recommend using Rizful or Alby Hub with a NWC connection for Stacker News!

PSA: https://rizful.com/docs/use-rizful-with-services#use-rizful-with-stacker-news

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 55m

wow, thank you for this dedicated guide!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB 2h

Will cowboys credits ever go away?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 1h

If everybody sends and receive sats, yes.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 2h

My wallet connection fails often. What happens when your wallet isn’t working and you get zapped by real Sats and not CCs

59 sats \ 2 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 2h

you'll get cc's

34 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB 2h

Sadness

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taft 1h

That's why you need to make sure that your wallets are always plugged in.

55 sats \ 9 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 3h

I'm testing an alternative to alby, in NWC you have two connection strings, one for sending and one for receiving. For now I've only tested sending and it worked. My question is whether it's the same string for receiving or a different one. Coinos only offers one string. I followed @realBitcoinDog's tutorial and he doesn't mention this, he uses LN address to receive. cc/ @ek

33 sats \ 2 replies \ @rizful_com 1h

This is the one of the must confusing things about NWC with Stacker News currently. We've discussed with @koob and it's likely this behavior will be re-worked in the future, but for now, you need TWO DIFFERENT NWC STRINGS.... Our guide is here for Rizful but it should also work for other NWC back-ends like Alby Hub and others..... https://rizful.com/docs/use-rizful-with-services#use-rizful-with-stacker-news

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 1h

it's likely this behavior will be re-worked in the future

Do you have suggestions? I think this is a limitation of how NWC is generally used since we don't want to store spending permissions on our server.¹ So afaict, we need two separate connections since one needs to be on your device or encrypted on the server and one needs to be in plaintext on the server.

I think all we can do is to explain this better but wallets will continue to have to provide two different strings unless the spec is updated in some way. 🤔

and nobody should if they want to claim they are non-custodial ↩

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 1h

cool! when i have a bit more time i'll try it out.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 2h

I’ll be curious for the answer!

22 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 2h

But if Coinos gives you a lightning address, you can use that. It doesn’t matter which receive method you use; we handle them all the same.

44 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 2h

This is how I have it set up at the moment (LN Address to receive) and it works. I'm asking more out of curiosity. Maybe it doesn't matter if it works with SN, but maybe it does with other platforms. Let's wait for adam's reply. Thanks!

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 1h

Cool, thanks for letting us know it works for you!

I also recently mentioned the UX issues with NWC here, maybe something will come out of it.

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 3h

For receiving, you need a different string because we need to store it in plaintext on the server to coordinate payments.

@adam_coinos_io, does Coinos provide separate NWC strings to send and receive?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rizful_com 1h

Correct.

55 sats \ 5 replies \ @SpaceHodler 3h

So this means when someone zaps my post or comment, some of it may be CCs and some of it may be sats?

When I zap others and I have a non-zero CC balance, will SN spend my CCs before it takes zaps from my funding wallet?

And is there a way to remove CCs from the system or will their number only grow, meaning that an ever-increasing percentage of zaps I receive will be CCs?

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 2h

So this means when someone zaps my post or comment, some of it may be CCs and some of it may be sats?

Yes

When I zap others and I have a non-zero CC balance, will SN spend my CCs before it takes zaps from my funding wallet?

I believe the default is to zap real sats. We had a lot of internal discussion about which order should be the default but it will be easy to provide a setting so you can tell us what your preference is.

And is there a way to remove CCs from the system or will their number only grow, meaning that an ever-increasing percentage of zaps I receive will be CCs?

Every zap has a 30% sybil fee on it (doesn’t matter if CCs or sats) so the half life of a CC is almost exactly two zaps: 100*0.7*0.7=49

This means after two zaps, 51% of a CC went into rewards and territory revenue and rewards and revenue are always paid out in sats.

So this also means if everybody starts sending and receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist. At least that’s my hypothesis.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @astro_penguin 1h

I'm assuming it'll also be possible to select what to use at the time of zapping if you go into the custom amount menu?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 57m

Do you want to choose it per zap or do you just want to express your general preference via settings?

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 1h

Thanks!

So this also means if everybody starts sending and receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist.

I think this could be shortened to: So this also means if everybody starts ~~sending and~~ receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist. because for a CC to be sent it needs to be received first (in fact, >1.42 CCs need to be received).

And users are incentivized to receive sats, so CCs should die out indeed.

BTW it would be simpler not to introduce CCs at all and if someone doesn't have a receiving wallet attached, they'd receive nothing and the sats would go to SN as a 100% fee.

206 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 1h

So this also means if everybody starts sending and receiving real sats, CCs will quickly cease to exist.

As a receiver, you can't control what you will receive. If the sender only has CCs, you will receive CCs. But yes, to have CCs, you need to have received them in some way first 🤔 Nice observation!

edit: mhhh, anybody can buy CCs though. So you can have CCs even without someone else sending you some.

BTW it would be simpler not to introduce CCs at all and if someone doesn't have a receiving wallet attached, they'd receive nothing

Simpler for who? Certainly not for new users who just want to try out SN.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @realBitcoinDog 6h

I read the whole post again! I’m having a great week.

Merry Christmas!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Golu 9h

I thought you already had the same post only to find out that you postponed some switch. Too much ask for me but will try. Thanks

18 sats \ 1 reply \ @theonceler 10h

If I have lightning address set up with desired balance set to 1, will I receive zaps or is this a solution that only works because of the current custodial wallet?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 9h

That will work fine

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @jestopher_ 11h

My lightning address requires a minimum payment of 1000 sats (because it uses swaps). Can I use this as my attached wallet?

It's BancoLibre.com (self custodial) and attaching the lightning address produced an error since it failed the 1sat test invoice check.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rizful_com 1h

I recommend you try a NWC back end that is a fully featured Lightning Node. Rizful & Alby Hub will both work.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 6h

The overwhelming majority of zaps are less than 1000 sats.

This switch will introduce a "dust limit" which you can specify at 1000 sats, so we can probably eventually support such an external situation.

17 sats \ 3 replies \ @DesertDave 12h

As a territory founder, if i chose to not link an external wallet, I could just keep cowboy credits earned from zaps and stacker rewards, on the site to send to others and use for fees, zaps, etc. And I could also still receive some real sats from territory rewards that could be withdrawn to a wallet. So territory awards could still be custodial real bitcoin available to withdrawal on lightning? Is that correct? And if that is correct I guess I would have a cowboy credit balance and a Satoshi balance?

11 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 12h

All correct.

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @DesertDave 11h

Awesome. I think I am finally wrapping my head around what probably isn't that complicated.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 11h

People are definitely overthinking it

24 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 12h

Unrelated, when are you planning on talking about reducing territory prices?

130 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 12h

Probably the next thing I do once I put out the handful of fires that've started.

39 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 14h

If I have an attached wallet, but the lightning node goes offline, what happens when someone tries to zap me or I try to zap someone?

I'd like to be able to configure cowboy credits as a fallback option when wallet is down:

if wallet status is ok:
    zap using wallet
else:
    if CC balance is sufficient:
        zap using CC
    else:
        show payment QR code

I believe the current behavior is more akin to:

if CC balance is sufficient:
    zap using CC
else:
    if wallet status is ok:
        zap using wallet
    else:
        show payment QR code

Of course, by "zap using CC" in the current behavior I'm referring to zap using my SN custodial wallet

41 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 14h

After Jan 3, it will work exactly how you describe wanting it to work. There might be some tuning required on our end to determine when a node is really down, but our intent is what you describe.

111 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 14h

If your wallet is down, you will receive CCs and send CCs or be shown a QR code if you don't have enough. Does that answer your question?

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @astro_penguin 14h freebie

I believe I'm ready!

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @DEADBEEF 15h

For reals this time?

I’m glad I setup Coinos last time. It has been working great!

16 sats \ 2 replies \ @cleaningup12 15h

Thanks for the faq, I've already set coinos as my receiver wallet and sending wallet via nwc, I think.

Incidentally was just looking at the logs and there are a fair few 'WARN' wallet does not support mSATS

26 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 15h

If you’re okay with donating fractions of a sat to us, you can safely ignore.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @cleaningup12 15h

You definitely deserve it koob, you work hard enough

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @cascdr 15h

Sats should rebrand to Cowboy Credits

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 15h

Bitcoin should rebrand to Stacker News.

34 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 16h

Dumb question which may have been answered previously. What if someone tries to game the system by only connecting a receive wallet? Will they zap cc's and receive real bitcoin?

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 15h

They can’t zap CCs if they don’t receive or buy any

97 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 15h

Yes, but we plan to give more rewards to zappers of real sats.

38 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 15h

No way to affirmatively punish this slimy activity?

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 15h

It might not be slimy is the problem. Maybe they only have WoS or something.

Besides, most stackers will end up spending their CCs fast on posts/comments/boost/territories/donations

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 16h

Is there a reason this post is pinned twice (#2 and bottom of screenshot)? https://i.imgur.com/AUwoFHI.png

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 16h

regression! Thanks

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bitter 16h

Will SN ever offer a custodial lightning wallet again?

Ever thought on integrating a cashu.me wallet?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 16h

What's cashu? Cash University? (I'm kidding. Yes, we plan to add ecash wallets. :))

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitter 16h

iris.to is simply iframing it ;)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 16h

I think we can do better

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @Bell_curve 17h

Partner with ZBD would be awesome!

@StackerSports will you accept cowboy credit like Calgary stampede?

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @StackerSports 16h

Yee haw. Wonder if we will need a sats pool and a cowboy credit pool.

58 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 16h

We hope to do it assuming we can segregate the data collection, surveillance, payment limits, geofencing, etc from the rest of the app.

We just want to be non-custodial-first.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Skipper 17h

What happens to the sats in my SN wallet on Jan. 3rd?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 17h

Nothing. The sats in your SN wallet will remain available to withdraw.

16 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 17h

When looking at a post, will the zaps and cowboy credits given to it be combined into one number in the top line (so "200 sats \ 1 reply \ @ username")? Or will they be separated?

115 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 17h

They will be combined into one number. You can get the breakdown on hover or by clicking on ... > details. Your zap notifications will, without hover or clicking, say "your item stacked 1,000 sats and 400 CCs".

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @cyphercosmo 17h

Can you please explain the technical solution?

I understand currently the wallets are generated and kept by SN, this comes at a risk and responsibilities, so I believe it's changing so that the only sats SN receives are for payment of its services, everything else will be automatically routed between user's wallets.