Cars vs. Bikes - Both Sides Are Wrong \ stacker news ~culture

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3336 sats \ 33 comments \ @kr 5 Jan culture

'Cars vs. Bikes' is the battle every North American city will fight this decade. Both sides are wrong.

You may not like it, but golf carts are peak form for an urban vehicle in the 21st century.

They're also illegal almost everywhere.

Cars

Cars are the main source of city traffic, they're noisy, they stink, they're expensive, and they're a danger to pedestrians.

Cars can go fast, but cities are systematically lowering speed limits to cater to bikes. Most city streets are now 25-30mph.

However, cars are protected from bad weather, you can store things in them, and you can bring 3-4 other people with you.

Bikes

Bikes ease traffic, they don't smell or make noise, they don't cost much, but they're unstable at high speeds, they suck in bad weather, and crashes = severe injuries or worse.

E-bikes have made biking a faster option for commutes, but it remains one of the most dangerous ways to travel in a city. It's also impractical to bring along a passenger or eat/drink while moving.

Golf Carts

Golf carts are 1/4th the size (and cost) of an SUV (they can even fit in bike lanes), they go fast enough for city streets, and they don't smell or make noise.

They also protect you from bad weather, you can store things in them, eat food/drink coffee while driving, bring passengers with you, and hitting a pothole won't send you to the hospital.

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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @nerd2ninja 6 Jan

In Taipei, Taiwan (because I'm not a CCP bootlicker lol) most people actually ride scooters or motorcycles in addition to amazing metro infrastructure. The only cars are taxis

In Manila, Philippines, if you would like to go anywhere and not be in traffic for 2 hours (for short distances yes the traffic is that bad) you ride a scooter or a motorcycle.

They have taxis that are cars, but you quickly learn how much that sucks and either take a truck that you kinda just clamer into when its stopped or a motorcycle side car taxi (which were definitely a Philipine solution because Americans like myself struggle to fit into them lmao).

And as you can see, yes its possible to be protected from the weather with a motorcycle. (Clothes help too of course)

One thing you will notice about all of these places is how much it sucks to drive a car.

Whereas in the US a car tailgating your scooter could be the death of you.

So I'm all for scooter/motorcycle vehicle lanes personally.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 6 Jan

whoa that's pretty cool

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 5 Jan

There's a residential community in Hong Kong called Discovery Bay where cars are not allowed and golf carts are the primary mode of transportation

94 sats \ 3 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo 5 Jan

I don't know anything about golf carts, however, I will fight anyone to the death regarding speed limits. 25-30 mph (40 kph) on a city street is more than adequate, especially on those where people live.

If you are hit by a car at 20 mph your odds of surviving are ~90%. If you are hit by a car at 40 mph your odds are worse than a coin flip. If a child is hit by a car at 40 mph, it's game over.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @alt 6 Jan

There was a TV and campaign in the UK many years ago that drove this point home.

If you hit a child at 30mph there's an 80% chance they'll live.

If you hit a child at 40mph there's an 80% chance they'll die.

Willful breaking of speed limits is something I see every day in this country and it really pisses me off.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatoshiNakanodo 6 Jan

I like that, it's much more concise than how I put it.

If 10mph makes a difference whether someone lives or dies, then I don't care about getting my fat ass to Taco Bell any quicker.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Yeah I get the rationale behind the speed limit decreases, until we can make vehicles safe enough that crashes happen far less often (maybe AI can get us there), I think that makes sense.

The lower speed limits come down, the more I think something like a golf cart makes sense on city streets. Golf carts can also be equipped with the same AI/driverless tech that cars can, so they could adapt and improve with the times.

12 sats \ 0 replies \ @Brunswick 5 Jan

Yes, I agree. Americans should act more gay

47 sats \ 4 replies \ @Satosora 5 Jan

I think the USA needs to adopt smaller cars. They already do this in Japan. They are called kei cars, and the cost less to use and insure.

20 sats \ 3 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Interesting, Kei cars seem like they're one degree closer to the "car" end of the spectrum than a golf cart, where they can be used on expressways and are likely a couple thousand pounds in weight.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Satosora 5 Jan

Can Kei cars use the expressway? I thought they could only stay in the city? You would think Japan would be bad with pollution, but most days it isnt. Only the days the wind brings the pollution over from china.

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Seems like they can: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kei_car

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 5 Jan

Yes, seems like they can. I dont know if I would want to take one on the expressway, though. I feel the problem is that car companies are trying to make cars worth more, but giving the consumer less. Also, biking can not really be taxed since it is run on human energy. Money plays a role in everything.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @af1f6f3e17 6 Jan

it's up to the people to decide, what's wrong is the lack of freedom around it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinIsTheFuture 5 Jan

We bike as a family to and from school with our kindergarten and 1st grader. It is making them tough is we do it year round and work on exercise!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Skipper 5 Jan

impractical to bring along a passenger or eat/drink while moving.

who eat/drink while driving lol 🙂

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

literally everyone who has ever used a drive-thru

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @criptopanas 5 Jan

this is an interesting option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuACZvjH7tc

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Interesting

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @zuspotirko 5 Jan

horses for courses

There are infrastructures where flexible car infrastructures makes sense (e.g. for connecting rural villages).
There are infrastructures were spaces for cars is wasteful and induces demand (e.g. city downtowns)
There are connections where mass transit of lots of people makes trains really efficient (e.g. connecting medium distance big cities)
There are spaces where your golfcarts are cool I guess. Vacation resorts come to mind.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @grayruby 5 Jan

Who is going to use a golf cart?

Let’s take Toronto for example since we both know it well.

You have people that commute to downtown daily to work from all areas of the city, surrounding GTA and beyond. They aren’t using golf carts.

You have people who live downtown and walk to work or ride a few stops on the subway. They aren’t using a golf cart.

You have people who bike to work. They aren’t using a golf cart unless it is bad weather at which point they probably take the subway.

Where I could see something like this being feasible is some sort of golf cart downtown taxi service, likely eventually autonomous.

40 sats \ 3 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Golf carts are illegal on Ontario streets, that's what is holding all this back. I think people living in the city that commute downtown would prefer something like a golf cart (GTA people won't, since they need to use the highway).

I'd happily switch from driving to a golf cart for daily commutes and groceries. All my driving trips in the city take 20-30 minutes, and they'd basically take the same amount of time on a bike or in a golf cart. The top speed isn't the constraint, it's the city traffic that slows down commuters.

I recognize that for almost all of my city travels, a car is overkill. I almost never fill all the seats with passengers, I never get anywhere close to my car's top speed, and I never fill it to the brim with cargo.

But for all the reasons mentioned above, I'm not willing to invest in a bike and use it on my daily commutes either. A golf cart would be just as fast, cost way less, let me bring passengers, and would be much safer to use than a bike.

And if manufacturers put even an ounce of energy into golf cart innovation (which won't happen until they are legal), you could imagine all the top-tier audio systems, cutting-edge battery packs, heated seats, even leather interiors being ported over from cars to golf carts.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 5 Jan

I am all for legalizing them and finding out.

But I am skeptical that there is much of a market for this unless it is some sort of downtown golf cart robotaxi service.

Cities are shitcoins KR. Free yourself and enjoy your car. Move to a small town and you can walk and bike everywhere. I rarely drive.

40 sats \ 1 reply \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Do you find biking is slower than driving in small towns? I've always thought I'd need a car if I didn't live in the city, because on all the 80km/h country roads, a bike would fall behind

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 5 Jan

Not many people bike and if they do it is on the trails so I would say likely.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 5 Jan

I like the take. Not a city dweller so I have little care about it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 5 Jan

Reject modernity. Bring back horses.

This is Cowboy Country.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 5 Jan

Wonderful headline

I don't even think it's specifically about golf carts, but you're definitely onto something. There's a whole continuum of potential vehicles between bikes and cars, but they can't legally be used in the US.

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

Thanks, and you're right about the vehicle spectrum.

It would be fun to see what kind of improvements Tesla or some other innovative company could make to golf carts (or similarly small vehicles) if they got government approval to make them road-legal.

I bet we'd see a proliferation of new form factors like how batteries not only enabled e-bikes but also all sorts of e-scooters, one-wheels, e-skateboards, and even different style bikes.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Roll 5 Jan

and what about moto/scooter/BMW C1, electric scooter, longboard, rollerblade... And what about Alien Spaceship ? :P or WonderWoman or Superman ...? :P

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan

There are all sorts of e-bike variations (scooters, skateboards, one-wheels, etc...) but they basically all have the same issues as bikes.

Not familiar enough with alien spaceship technology to comment, could be a promising option for the 22nd century.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Roll 5 Jan

do you have a moto or scooter ?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr OP 5 Jan