What To Do about Homelessness \ stacker news ~Politics_And

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What To Do about Homelessness mises.org/power-market/what-do-about-homelessness

689 sats \ 94 comments \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 21h Politics_And_Law

Yet, not everyone can aspire to own a home due to a variety of circumstances. While homeownership is appropriate for many, a well functioning housing market also provides housing for the lower-income members of society, such as the non-working elderly, the disabled, and the unlucky. Moreover, young workers just starting out are going to need low-cost housing.

Yet, it is clear that many local markets—and housing markets are generally very local in nature—are not providing a supply to match the demand. This is especially acute at the lowest income levels, and as a result, we continue to see increases in the homeless rate, which rose 18 percent in 2024. What is causing this? Well, if you’re a regular reader at mises.org you can already guess: government regulation and policy have a lot to do with it.

It seems that no government and very few people seem to want to trust housing to the free market. Therefore, there are government interventions into the market that are making more problems. For THEM every problem has only one solution: more state action, whether this will work or not, it does not matter because it gives more control to THEM. The only governmental solutions are more government.

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113 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 21h

I often think about the feel good regulations in big cities that require certain amounts of square footage and various amenities to be included in all units. The resulting cost is so high that people have to have 6 roommates in small apartments.

What if developers were allowed to actually cater to the demands of those consumers and build units that suited what people were actually looking for?

44 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 20h

Big problem here is that the neighborhoods themselves want to use the regulations to tie up development.

It's an interesting situation where the state actually wants deregulation but neighborhoods want to keep their ability to prevent development.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

I have lived in places where there is no regulation on buildings that I could discern. For instance, in Japan, there are a lot of cities and sections of cities that evolved without any kind of regulation, at all (except for keeping the red light district in one area of the city). It is still organized, but in a different way from what you see in, say, America. There are complaints, but everybody understands that one’s property is his to do with as he wishes.

24 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

That is a good question, but who ever heard of the state leaving these sorts of decisions to the actual consumers, themselves? It won’t happen because THEY feel they are doing the best for other people who cannot do the best for themselves.

Best quotes by C. S. Lewis Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

35 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 20h

It seems like the closest to deregulation is when a new product enters the market that does what regulations are preventing and it gets adopted too rapidly to outlaw it.

Uber comes to mind. The way that company rolled out p2p rideshares will be a legendary piece of free market history.

65 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan did some radical deregulation in the transportation industries that worked out well. The airlines and trucking were reformed to make them useful to the shippers. I think that sort of massive deregulation would be possible if the people of the state demanded it, however, they sometimes prefer to have the regulations in place because they stifle competition in the housing prices.

85 sats \ 72 replies \ @SimpleStacker 21h

IMO, the most important fact to understand about homeless is that it is two problems not one. The most striking fact I remember hearing in a seminar is:

The majority of the homeless people are temporarily homeless. They're homeless for a few days or weeks due to things like domestic violence and they need some time to get back on their feet. My understanding is that the current system of homeless shelters and rapid rehousing is mostly working for these people.
The majority of the days spent in homelessness are driven by a minority of people. These are the chronic homeless driven by drug abuse and mental health problems. These are the homeless that create tent cities and cause problems in the neighborhoods they're located.

Thus, I don't think homelessness is a housing problem per se. It is more of a mental health and drug abuse problem. More housing (including housing deregulation) won't solve the problem imo. No landlord would accept most of these people as tenants, even if they could pay, which they can't.

130 sats \ 52 replies \ @Undisciplined 20h

I think the factors are more integrated than that makes it seem. The stress of exorbitant costs of living must play a role in drug abuse and poor mental health. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a relationship between housing costs and homelessness, but the worst homelessness occurs where housing costs the most.

68 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

You might note that the homeless problem really started and started getting noticed when the states shut down the institutions for the mentally ill. When they closed them down, all the patients were put out, on the street, so to speak, with no supervision or assistance. Then, everybody started noticing the problem of homelessness. I have to say, though, that many of the homeless prefer their situation to being ensconced into an apartment, home or other accommodations. They choose to live that way.

61 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

Indeed, the whole problem is a mass of complexity. It is a Gordian Knot to be untangled without the end being seeable. Perhaps this one of the results of the previous moulding that we have been subjected to. I think that what our overlords have done in the past has lead to this point. Happily, I think the overlords are losing their grip on society. Then, maybe, we can have some sane and not psychopathic guidelines for society.

87 sats \ 45 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20h

I don't disagree. But I just think the "housing first" advocates are delusional because they refuse to acknowledge any solution other than housing, and that actually hinders solutions because they won't acknowledge drug abuse as a problem. (These are the people that tend to support things like safe injection sites and laws against clearing homeless encampments off the streets.)

Michael Shellenberger wrote about this in San Fransicko. One of the interesting things in the book is that one of the professors most associated with housing first ideas has agreed that the advocates have gone too far with his ideas.

105 sats \ 31 replies \ @kepford 20h

But I just think the "housing first" advocates are delusional because they refuse to acknowledge any solution other than housing,

100%

It is indeed complex and more than housing. Its a loss of community as well and where the cost and regulation of housing comes into play is around providing shelter for these chronic. There are many stories of individuals and no-profits trying to fix this aspect. Creating communities for those with mental and drug issues. The governments get in the way. Some of this is due to the public not wanting these people to exist. I see this problem every time I visit a city in California.

Tiny house communities are shut down when attempted. Just having a roof and a door is a luxury we take for granted. I would take those in "public" office more seriously if they tried to get out of the way more and let those trying to actually help, do it.

We have some amazing organizations in my county that are funded by the public (voluntarily) and businesses. They do amazing work. I'm convinced if the state(government) would get out of the business of "helping" more could be done.

Don't get me started on the tax money that is just blown into the wind by the governments. These private orgs are far more efficient and focused.

So many things that politicians and gov officials say about homelessness sound good but in practice they make the issues worse. What's worse is that as I've followed this issue for years I have seen how cities just copy each other doing the same stupid things over and over again.

113 sats \ 30 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

You might like to look into how these situations were handled before the “progressives” got their hands on the levers of power. Almost everything was handled by voluntary charities that got their monies from the general public (not as taxes). They were very efficient and generated community.

57 sats \ 29 replies \ @kepford 19h

I have looked and you are correct. When I talk about helping the needy through voluntary means many of my more progressive friends doubt it would work. We have been told this over and over in history but its a lie.

Americans are very generous.

I usually try to explain how wasteful government aid programs are and how terrible they are at avoiding grift. When you have private charities they are always gonna be better at figuring out who really needs help vs. who is just milking the system.

I've seen this over the years in churches and charities.

74 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

Here is another reframing: Government aid programs are not wasteful and the money goes right to where THEY want it to go, to them. THEY get their hands in the cookie jar and crumbs around their mouths, then deny the situation. Psychopaths one and all.

27 sats \ 27 replies \ @SimpleStacker 19h

One possibility is that voluntary charity orgs self-select for people that actually care about solving the problem.

Whereas government-run social services will select for people who want cushy jobs and prestigious titles and political careers. They aren't as likely to actually care about helping the poor.

(By select, I just mean the intentional or unintentional process by which these organizations end up staffing their positions)

38 sats \ 26 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

Yes, self-selection into the kinds of organizations and projects being done is rife in the system. However, how would you do it any other way. Other ways would involve the lack of freedom demonstrated by the bolsheviks.

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94 sats \ 6 replies \ @Undisciplined 20h

I totally agree with that. I'd say it's actually way more than two problems. Everything that makes it harder to afford and find housing plays a role, which means everything that makes it harder to find and hold employment plays a role, which means...

Basically, the progressive political bundle leads to homelessness, which makes it almost impossible to address in progressive cities.

107 sats \ 4 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20h

The slim ray of light is that California seems to be waking up from the progressive delusion they've been experiencing for past few decades. Emphasis on the word seems.

72 sats \ 1 reply \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

I think that the fires are going to cause a lot of waking up in the very near future. Their insurance was cancelled just weeks before the fires, for instance. Perhaps there will be a sea change in Hollywood when they understand they have been abandoned to their own resources, too, just like the rest of us.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

they can ignore inflation and immigration and crime but they can't ignore their house being destroyed via fire

if this doesn't wake them up, then we need to shoot them

70 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 20h

I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it. I suspect they will blame the current admin and not the ideologies that have directed the state for decades.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

which current admin?

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

What you might be saying is that tough love might be a lot more effective than warm and fuzzy treatment, am I correct? I quoted C.S. Lewis about what I think the problem is: the overlords think they know best.

76 sats \ 5 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

I think that the “housing firsters” have their hands in the cookie jar. Perhaps they are absconding with the monies that were intended to ensconce people in housing. Just a thought on the motivations and incentives behind what is going on on the west coast.

56 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford 20h

Over and over again you see this. Someone is rigging the system to build expensive housing to "fix" it instead of letting the market correct itself.

83 sats \ 3 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

Well, there is another way to state the problem, reframe it, if you will. The cronies of the state that profit from the ill gotten gains of taxation prefer to have their building projects state financed so they can rake off the profits privately. If said like that, you can see the problem and solutions more clearly.

57 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 19h

Yep.

Honestly those that work in the state on homelessness have a greater incentive to NOT fix the problems but appear to look like they are trying.

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

Yes, that way they can get more money to get more staffing beneath them and get raises for doing a whole lot of nothing.

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

just shoot them

it's not like they have family and friends who will miss them

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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

the housing cost angle is a red herring, a bleeding heart red herring

13 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 16h

I kind of think that it may be the red herring covering up some folks bellying up to the trough and taking what they can without effort. Hand in the cockie jar sort of thing.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 16h

who knew landlords in CA only accept dollars and not pesos

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 16h

I bet they could accept silver pesos!

30 sats \ 9 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

I have to agree with you on who are the homeless that are making the problems. It seems that policies that encourage drug usage are driving more homelessness in the worst areas. The only reason they can do tent cities and such is because the weather is good enough to be able to survive that way. You wouldn’t see this in Chicago, for instance because it is too cold in the winter.

0 sats \ 8 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20h

Yep, housing deregulation is a worthy goal and would help increase supply and reduce housing costs. But I don't think it's going to solve California's homeless problem without reforming drug policies

30 sats \ 6 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 20h

Deregulation of the housing market may reduce the problem of the people who do not have a drug problem, but it is the remaining addict population that needs solving. I am starting to think that true addiction is not really a choice but rather a disease. It is difficult to make the decision to quit and perform on it. I know, I quit a three-pack a day smoking addiction, cold turkey, once I had made a true and complete decision to quit and performed on it.

10 sats \ 5 replies \ @SimpleStacker 20h

I agree. I suppose what I'm reacting to is that in California there is a large contingent of people who won't admit that drug abuse is a factor. I think it's coming from the same victimization mentality that DEI comes from: i.e. these people are victims, they have no agency in the matter. I think the people who refuse to look at drug addiction as a problem, or something that individuals need to be held accountable for, are contributing to the homelessness problem.

30 sats \ 4 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

It could be coming from people who are actually profiting from the drug abuse and homelessness. I suspect it would be very different if, say, $24 billion hadn’t vanished into thin air.

5 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 19h

Oh, absolutely. Michael Shellenberger talks about this directly in San Fransicko

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

Yes, I guess he did a very good job when he researched that. Did he name names?

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

given them ozempic and fentanyl and opiates

at some point they will overdose and die

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

mental health and drug abuse problem

personally, I would encourage drug abuse to induce overdose/suicide

or just shoot them

13 sats \ 6 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 16h

That may be a little over the top, don’t you think? Letting them go their own way with benign neglect may be a less of a karmic burden than taking an active role in their demise. A lot of mental problems are due, I think, are due to the isht that the progressives indoctrinate into people.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

it is over the top

but I am no longer young and my patience has been exhausted

the next time I hear Oprimat 2 para Espanol I will shoot someone of Hispanic heritage

and I will get away with it

13 sats \ 4 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 16h

Oprimat 2 para Espanol What does that mean? I don’t speak Spanish.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 16h

it's a feature not a bug

press 2 for Spanish but I know you are kidding

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 16h

I never pay attention to the other choices beside English. They never ask about my other languages.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 16h

I misspelled oprima

illiteracy is contagious!

merde!

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 15h

You could lay it off on a spellchecker. I didn’t know that it was misspelled.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder 7h

100% this. i watch a lot of soft white underbelly with interviews of people on skidrow and the vast majority are people with extremely horrible lives and fates that have led them down a very bad life.

even if you gave them all a free house, most would end up homeless again because of drug problems, mental health issues etc

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder 7h

I think it would be better to say what to do about the issue of housing/home ownership because homelessness has a different connotation.

i see two main issues:

sometimes you have a supply and demand issue, like in Canada where there is a lack of supply caused by gov planning rules (or so I'm told) which means there is not enough housing to go around which drives costs up and reduces supply past what a median earner can affordably manage
basic affordability - in a case where there are enough housing units available, people still can't afford a house because of the usual monetary debasement and wages that don't rise enough with inflation.

also, because fiat is so broken and most people feel it, real estate is being used as an investment and savings vehicle, instead of just something to live in. then you have people from other countries buying up units in Western countries because the laws and protections are better

then finally, you have homeless in general which @SimpleStacker talked about.

when a person has a broken mind and soul and is being self-destructive, there's no magic thing anyone can do, other than invent a time machine and make sure they didn't have such a terrible childhood etc

i would be interested to know about homeless levels during the gold standard, pretty sure there were no tent encampments back then

70 sats \ 4 replies \ @kepford 20h

I highly recommend everyone do this at least once.

Go to your local organization that works to help people out of homelessness and drug addiction and volunteer. Better yet volunteer in a way where you will interact with the people living on the street. You will never be the same.

Its great to donate money, but getting exposure changes your perspective.

49 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

I think too many people would be “shocked to death” over what they see. Doing a soup kitchen is a really good way to see what is going on. Just trying to talk is difficult sometimes.

23 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 19h

Soup kitchen is a great option.

69 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 19h

I did it twice and it is a real eye-opener. i also packed food packets for a project called “Feed the Starving Chilldren” several times. That was another good feeling to do sort of thing.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 16h

getting exposure makes one more cynical and misanthropic

give them fentanyl and pray for lots of overdoses

hardest part is picking up the corpse, killing is the easy part

62 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 19h

It really is a tough problem, but I think reducing regulation on building more homes, apartments, etc.

Honestly I am here in the Phoenix Valley and there are well over 50,000 houses for sale, so why should there be homeless people on the street - when many of these homes sit vacant for months and years on end. The solution is a return to sound money, but also flooding the market with more homes so people stop treating homes as a financial asset, and instead as a place to stay. These homes need to be used for utility value, not as a way to preserve wealth. Bitcoin fixes this, but also we need alot more supply (as it will drive existing home values down).

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 18h

The answer may be that homelessness is not solely a problem of lack of houses and apartments for people. There may be a lot more factors involved. The discussion has been active on what that may be.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Shugard 18h

Is that a viable solution?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 18h

Someone either had a great sense of humor or someone needs further education on how to write in English.

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @Akg10s3 21h

Yes, and we do think about the inflation factor... I would say that it would be almost impossible for a young couple to have access to decent housing because the salary they earn is stolen by inflation!!!

The purchasing power is getting smaller and smaller and the elderly or disabled are not included in the plans of the elites and the authoritarian government!!!

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 21h

Yes, this is true, but together they should be able to afford some sort apartment, maybe not the biggest or most luxurious, but an apartment nonetheless. This problem is perfectly because of the state and its associated banks and policies to get women out of the house and taxed.

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 16h

and they should speak English or read English

and they should be self sufficient

shouda coulda woulda

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic OP 16h

It would help on all counts.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Akg10s3 20h

I agree with you 👌