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85 sats \ 72 replies \ @SimpleStacker 10 Jan \ on: What To Do about Homelessness Politics_And_Law
IMO, the most important fact to understand about homeless is that it is two problems not one. The most striking fact I remember hearing in a seminar is:
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The majority of the homeless people are temporarily homeless. They're homeless for a few days or weeks due to things like domestic violence and they need some time to get back on their feet. My understanding is that the current system of homeless shelters and rapid rehousing is mostly working for these people.
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The majority of the days spent in homelessness are driven by a minority of people. These are the chronic homeless driven by drug abuse and mental health problems. These are the homeless that create tent cities and cause problems in the neighborhoods they're located.
Thus, I don't think homelessness is a housing problem per se. It is more of a mental health and drug abuse problem. More housing (including housing deregulation) won't solve the problem imo. No landlord would accept most of these people as tenants, even if they could pay, which they can't.
I think the factors are more integrated than that makes it seem. The stress of exorbitant costs of living must play a role in drug abuse and poor mental health. Otherwise, there shouldn't be a relationship between housing costs and homelessness, but the worst homelessness occurs where housing costs the most.
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You might note that the homeless problem really started and started getting noticed when the states shut down the institutions for the mentally ill. When they closed them down, all the patients were put out, on the street, so to speak, with no supervision or assistance. Then, everybody started noticing the problem of homelessness.
I have to say, though, that many of the homeless prefer their situation to being ensconced into an apartment, home or other accommodations. They choose to live that way.
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Indeed, the whole problem is a mass of complexity. It is a Gordian Knot to be untangled without the end being seeable. Perhaps this one of the results of the previous moulding that we have been subjected to. I think that what our overlords have done in the past has lead to this point. Happily, I think the overlords are losing their grip on society. Then, maybe, we can have some sane and not psychopathic guidelines for society.
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I don't disagree. But I just think the "housing first" advocates are delusional because they refuse to acknowledge any solution other than housing, and that actually hinders solutions because they won't acknowledge drug abuse as a problem. (These are the people that tend to support things like safe injection sites and laws against clearing homeless encampments off the streets.)
Michael Shellenberger wrote about this in San Fransicko. One of the interesting things in the book is that one of the professors most associated with housing first ideas has agreed that the advocates have gone too far with his ideas.
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But I just think the "housing first" advocates are delusional because they refuse to acknowledge any solution other than housing,
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It is indeed complex and more than housing. Its a loss of community as well and where the cost and regulation of housing comes into play is around providing shelter for these chronic. There are many stories of individuals and no-profits trying to fix this aspect. Creating communities for those with mental and drug issues. The governments get in the way. Some of this is due to the public not wanting these people to exist. I see this problem every time I visit a city in California.
Tiny house communities are shut down when attempted. Just having a roof and a door is a luxury we take for granted. I would take those in "public" office more seriously if they tried to get out of the way more and let those trying to actually help, do it.
We have some amazing organizations in my county that are funded by the public (voluntarily) and businesses. They do amazing work. I'm convinced if the state(government) would get out of the business of "helping" more could be done.
Don't get me started on the tax money that is just blown into the wind by the governments. These private orgs are far more efficient and focused.
So many things that politicians and gov officials say about homelessness sound good but in practice they make the issues worse. What's worse is that as I've followed this issue for years I have seen how cities just copy each other doing the same stupid things over and over again.
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You might like to look into how these situations were handled before the “progressives” got their hands on the levers of power. Almost everything was handled by voluntary charities that got their monies from the general public (not as taxes). They were very efficient and generated community.
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I have looked and you are correct. When I talk about helping the needy through voluntary means many of my more progressive friends doubt it would work. We have been told this over and over in history but its a lie.
Americans are very generous.
I usually try to explain how wasteful government aid programs are and how terrible they are at avoiding grift. When you have private charities they are always gonna be better at figuring out who really needs help vs. who is just milking the system.
I've seen this over the years in churches and charities.
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Here is another reframing: Government aid programs are not wasteful and the money goes right to where THEY want it to go, to them. THEY get their hands in the cookie jar and crumbs around their mouths, then deny the situation. Psychopaths one and all.
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One possibility is that voluntary charity orgs self-select for people that actually care about solving the problem.
Whereas government-run social services will select for people who want cushy jobs and prestigious titles and political careers. They aren't as likely to actually care about helping the poor.
(By select, I just mean the intentional or unintentional process by which these organizations end up staffing their positions)
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Yes, self-selection into the kinds of organizations and projects being done is rife in the system. However, how would you do it any other way. Other ways would involve the lack of freedom demonstrated by the bolsheviks.
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The point is that voluntary charities may solve the problems more efficiently because they tend to be staffed by people who actually care.
The state/gov has no business doing any of this. That's my thought.
I totally agree with that. I'd say it's actually way more than two problems. Everything that makes it harder to afford and find housing plays a role, which means everything that makes it harder to find and hold employment plays a role, which means...
Basically, the progressive political bundle leads to homelessness, which makes it almost impossible to address in progressive cities.
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The slim ray of light is that California seems to be waking up from the progressive delusion they've been experiencing for past few decades. Emphasis on the word seems.
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I think that the fires are going to cause a lot of waking up in the very near future. Their insurance was cancelled just weeks before the fires, for instance. Perhaps there will be a sea change in Hollywood when they understand they have been abandoned to their own resources, too, just like the rest of us.
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they can ignore inflation and immigration and crime but they can't ignore their house being destroyed via fire
if this doesn't wake them up, then we need to shoot them
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What you might be saying is that tough love might be a lot more effective than warm and fuzzy treatment, am I correct? I quoted C.S. Lewis about what I think the problem is: the overlords think they know best.
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I think that the “housing firsters” have their hands in the cookie jar. Perhaps they are absconding with the monies that were intended to ensconce people in housing. Just a thought on the motivations and incentives behind what is going on on the west coast.
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Well, there is another way to state the problem, reframe it, if you will. The cronies of the state that profit from the ill gotten gains of taxation prefer to have their building projects state financed so they can rake off the profits privately. If said like that, you can see the problem and solutions more clearly.
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Yes, that way they can get more money to get more staffing beneath them and get raises for doing a whole lot of nothing.
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just shoot them
it's not like they have family and friends who will miss them
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the housing cost angle is a red herring, a bleeding heart red herring
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I kind of think that it may be the red herring covering up some folks bellying up to the trough and taking what they can without effort. Hand in the cockie jar sort of thing.
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who knew landlords in CA only accept dollars and not pesos
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I bet they could accept silver pesos!
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I have to agree with you on who are the homeless that are making the problems. It seems that policies that encourage drug usage are driving more homelessness in the worst areas. The only reason they can do tent cities and such is because the weather is good enough to be able to survive that way. You wouldn’t see this in Chicago, for instance because it is too cold in the winter.
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Yep, housing deregulation is a worthy goal and would help increase supply and reduce housing costs. But I don't think it's going to solve California's homeless problem without reforming drug policies
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Deregulation of the housing market may reduce the problem of the people who do not have a drug problem, but it is the remaining addict population that needs solving. I am starting to think that true addiction is not really a choice but rather a disease. It is difficult to make the decision to quit and perform on it. I know, I quit a three-pack a day smoking addiction, cold turkey, once I had made a true and complete decision to quit and performed on it.
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I agree. I suppose what I'm reacting to is that in California there is a large contingent of people who won't admit that drug abuse is a factor. I think it's coming from the same victimization mentality that DEI comes from: i.e. these people are victims, they have no agency in the matter. I think the people who refuse to look at drug addiction as a problem, or something that individuals need to be held accountable for, are contributing to the homelessness problem.
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It could be coming from people who are actually profiting from the drug abuse and homelessness. I suspect it would be very different if, say, $24 billion hadn’t vanished into thin air.
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Oh, absolutely. Michael Shellenberger talks about this directly in San Fransicko
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Yes, I guess he did a very good job when he researched that. Did he name names?
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Yes, lots of names. Book is well worth reading.
given them ozempic and fentanyl and opiates
at some point they will overdose and die
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mental health and drug abuse problem
personally, I would encourage drug abuse to induce overdose/suicide
or just shoot them
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That may be a little over the top, don’t you think? Letting them go their own way with benign neglect may be a less of a karmic burden than taking an active role in their demise. A lot of mental problems are due, I think, are due to the isht that the progressives indoctrinate into people.
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it is over the top
but I am no longer young and my patience has been exhausted
the next time I hear Oprimat 2 para Espanol I will shoot someone of Hispanic heritage
and I will get away with it
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Oprimat 2 para Espanol What does that mean? I don’t speak Spanish.
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it's a feature not a bug
press 2 for Spanish but I know you are kidding
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I never pay attention to the other choices beside English. They never ask about my other languages.
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I misspelled oprima
illiteracy is contagious!
merde!
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You could lay it off on a spellchecker. I didn’t know that it was misspelled.
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100% this. i watch a lot of soft white underbelly with interviews of people on skidrow and the vast majority are people with extremely horrible lives and fates that have led them down a very bad life.
even if you gave them all a free house, most would end up homeless again because of drug problems, mental health issues etc
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