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10 sats \ 31 replies \ @expatriotic OP 28 Jan \ parent \ on: How to Acquire No KYC Bitcoin bitcoin_beginners
No KYC bitcoin is a useful phrase.
It's a short-hand for not giving a centralized "honepot" exchange your firstborn, hair clipping, picture of you hold passport, audio of you speaking, 360 degree picture of your face/head, blood/DNA sample, Tax ID number, License, Proof of income, all just so you can buy "cheap" bitcoins from them, which you, because you're ignorant, leave on the exchange and don't take ownership of.
So then they get hacked or rug you and you realize you don't have the sats you thought you had.
old experienced bitcoiners knows what you mean. But noobs don't. And is very important the language used with them.
Saying that you must "buy no KYC Bitcoin" in their mind is automatically making a separation of 2 types of Bitcoin, when THERE ISN'T. If would exist that separation, we will have two different chains, two different coins, transacting on two different ways.
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Here's the thing I don't understand.
Sure an exchange knows individual xyz bought Bitcoin...
But after that how can they 'track' where the Bitcoin goes?
Other than through a serious, high-priority LE investigation over years (and even then) it would be very difficult to track ie through Coinjoins/Lightning/Mixes/P2P transactions/Real World buys/sells etc...
As long as THAT Bitcoin never touches a Kyc-Exchange again then... what is the point?
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KYC is bad, really bad.
But not because you could link a UTXO with your real identity, but because bad actors could steal all that KYC information and use it against you.... even physical attacks.
Check this out... all KYC data leaked: https://paste.fo/raw/ad9159623b1c
Yes, indeed, if you are not going back to sell the BTC you bought in a CEX, back for fiat, there's nothing to fear for your sats. Only the bad guys that stole your location data could come to your door and do this...
But that is totally different than saying "KYC bitcoin". Is really misleading noobs (because there's also a business pushing clueless newbies into paying expensive coinjoins, whirlpools etc. creating a false impression that without using these techniques you are fucked). It is not. The whole point is to NEVER go back to fiat and mind your business.
IMHO as an old bitcoiner that was using a lot of tools during many years, coinjoins are obsolete now, a past used tool, in the pre-LN era. With LN I can obtain 10x more privacy than onchain. I personally stopped using coinjoins in 2019 when I start running my first LN node.
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Thanks for your comment.
I think some of the 'fud' around Lightning (even from some people who mean well) is due to its complexity.
I am still learning new things about Lightning every day, and "privacy" on the internet in general is the product of many digital tools and techniques, "opsec" for lack of a better word involving data and accessing it.
VPNs and TOR are only some examples of this... but using Bitcoin really privately will have a huge learning curve too.
Some people are just... kinda lazy and don't want to do the work required to learn, they don't want to go down the educational path I guess they want things handed to them.
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Tor is only for watching porn... IMHO. not compatible with Bitcoin and especially with LN.
VPNs yes are good.
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I generally agree with you. Depends who you want to hid from. If you want to hide your traffic from your ISP and you bought Mullvad with no ID and paid with bitcoin or monero, then you're probably fine.
If you're L0la or some journalist or buying drugs then Tor is your bet as it's actually anonymous, unlike VPNs which just shift trust.
Just note that the NSA CAN see peep traffic through VPN, documents came out to this effect in 2013. Depending on if you want privacy from the US NSA or not.
Also, good luck using Tor only services like Bisq or RoboSats without Tor lol, kind of a default. Unless you're like Darth with stacks of bitcoins he got from CPU mining 10 years ago. Some of us are still net buyers of bitcoins haha
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Some of us are still net buyers of bitcoins haha
hahaha change your job man, earn bitcoin not shitcoins.
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Meh, I don't really need my job to pay me in bitcoins. Then I run the risk of them filing taxes on my behalf AND telling in one fell swoop the government that I own bitcoins and how much. No thanks.
Also, let me know how many international schools pay teachers in bitcoins...
Find me a job in my field (teacher) that pays $60,000 and covers 100% of my expenses and then we'll talk.
I use both. Am I wrong to do that?
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I'd use one or the other, unless you're in China like me where my network is on a router level VPN, so I can't help but use both sometimes.
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If you never go back to fiat, there's nothing to worry.
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Sorry, I meant VPN + TOR
Also, I have never sold Bitcoin
That's the point, they don't /can't "track". But they have you on the hook for what you bought. And if you "don't have it" anymore, then pony up the dough for the capital gains.
The point is, other than being on a list and having a knock on your door when your address gets leaked to the dark web as being a bitcoin holder, you are now on a list that the IRS can request from that exchange. Did you declare during your normie taxes you had bitcoin? No, now you're a fraud... Yikes. Better to partition and not let them touch.
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You declare your income to IRS because you are scared.
I don't give a shit about any tax agency because I rebut their authority in just 5 min.
Their laws do not apply over my btc.
We are not the same.
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I declare my income because it's already automatically paid by my employer in China and while I pay the accountant $200 a year, the IRS gives me $3333 a year (because I have kids).
Things are nuanced.
We are not the same.
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