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Demographics is straight-up an economic question. We need enough people to generate innovations, and certainly the unique, right-tail, step-change ones that change civilizations. And we mechanically need more people to carry the physical load of supporting the elderly and the sick.
In a piece for The Daily Economy a few years ago ("How Societies Save For an Uncertain Future") I laid out the 3 ways we can carry value forward:
I wrote that
In societies bigger than Dunbar’s number, (1) collapses. The history of human civilization has thus been a battle between (2) and (3) – between centralized structures that controlled mandated money, and structures using decentralized real-world resources for their monetary purposes.
Technically, they all condense to the same thing: generations have to carry one another, either stably rolling over or constantly expanding. The 20th century lived happily-ever-after on always expanding—thanks, Boomers!—but that trend hasn't just reversed but won't stop falling. We are fucked, one might say.
Today's world of aging populations in the West, a West filled with varying degrees of generous pension/social safety nets and highly regulated markets, thus find themselves in bigger problems. All countries have too few babies born, to increasingly elderly parents, unable to support more and more grandparents broadly speaking:
The FT has a long read this week about the baby gap, opening with a policy experiment in Finland: pay people €1,000 a year for 10 years to stick around and have babies. The inhabitants didn't. Oopsies. (I mean, 1. it's not enough money to make a difference, and 2. paying enough —maybe 10x or 20x that—wouldn't be economically sustainable.)
Policymakers around the world are grappling with the same problems as those in Lestijärvi: no matter what they seem to offer in the way of incentives, people are not having more babies. For the Finnish municipality it failed even to lure people from elsewhere: “It didn’t stop people moving away, and it didn’t attract new families,” Aihio said.
And these efforts have promising effects... absolutely nowhere:
China has offered free fertility treatments, Hungary big tax exemptions and cash, and Singapore grants for parents and grandparents. A Danish travel company even ran an ad campaign to “Do it for Denmark”. In Japan, the state funds AI-powered matchmaking, while Tokyo’s metropolitan government is offering a four-day working week to staff in an attempt to encourage people to become parents.

"Fewer babies and more older residents lead to a lower proportion of people of working age, denting tax revenues at the same time as costs associated with ageing societies, such as state pensions and healthcare, increase."

Put in meme form (the numbers are not quite right... no country has four elderly for one working person):

Any fixes?

“You can either increase migration rates or retirement age, or encourage people to have more children,” said Edward Davies, policy director at the Centre for Social Justice in the UK.
Well, the article covers all the ways in which encouraging people has failed (no response to money or flexibility or day care availability etc); The Economist ran a full special issue in the summer dedicated to the failures.
And migration is already about filled to the brink of what most European countries will accept; and vast increases in retirement age are both unfeasible and unpopular. Either way, vastly increased immigration only buys us a little bit of time, kicking the demographic can down a chaotic road.
Another suggestion, Svetski style(!) (#861088) is to roll back feminism:
Again, good luck with that—even if it worked/had potential to work, it's way too late for that!
While chanting "bitcoin" is a satisfying quick-fix, I'm not so sure it matters much. When people are asked why they don't have (more) kids (earlier), the answers are usually some combination of "too expensive" and "self-actualization." Higher education fucks with booth of those, as does globalization and technology, as does an overarching government siphoning off value left, right, and center.
A money that distributed productivity gains more evenly would help; a smaller/non-existent government would help; an afuera'd retirement system (i.e., one that outsources production for you in your old age to the global market) would help.
Still, nobody knows how to achieve/generate that, and it's doubtful that we'd have those productivity gains anyway. A better money (#793537, #809392, #839329) only does so much to make the real economic processes flow better.
Tl;dr—I'm pretty gloomy on this one.

non-paywalled here: https://archive.md/fLnZF
No mention of Singapore's National Night?
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no idea what this is??
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It was an actual pro fertility campaign that ran on regular TV channels.
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I knew you would bring this up!!
I need to state for the record that this ad was run by Mentos, the sweet company, and wasn’t government endorsed
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I don't know, the ad certainly implies that Mentos and the government are on the same page.
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I’m embarrassed to admit that there’s my nation’s typical approach towards problem-solving. Launch a national campaign, compose a catchy song or two, sometimes even have a mascot. Not saying that public education won’t help, but it should be part of a multipronged approach
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Can I reorient our thinking here a bit?
Why does everyone talk about this like it is some problem to be fixed?
The only extent to which it's a problem is governments pretending that anyone is entitled to some quality of life when they're old, without having to work, usually promised off the backs of the future generations. (Retirement at age 65 seems like an artificial concept to me!!)
I say let the pension funds collapse. If you want to retire when you're old, have kids and raise them well so they can take care of you in your elderly years, as is natural!
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That’s what we advocated in Singapore. Asian values and filial piety and all that, conveniently ignoring the fact that Westerners are perfectly willing to take care of their parents.
But some children absolutely refused to care for their parents. To the extent that we now have a Maintenance of Parents Act, in which parents can sue their children in court for not looking after them. It’s embarrassing
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I agree with you on that, in principle, but a completely free market approach to it doesn't change the problem.
As my friend says, at the end of the day you're still handing over Apple stocks in exchange for apples; if there are too many people with stored up Apples and not enough people making enough apples, relative prices crash and retirees live shitty lives anyway
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38 sats \ 7 replies \ @Satosora 2h
I dont know if bitcoin is even the fix. Unless we change our mentality and society, families wont want to become bigger because of the burden. The future looks bleak.
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precisely.
Maybe bitcoin can help with that along the margin, but there's gotta be a mentality shift around values and how we live—that's for sure.
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21 sats \ 4 replies \ @Satosora 2h
The people and government in sweden, norway, and finland have embraced a more family oriented lifestyle, right? Are birth rates going up or down there?
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going down too, no difference to elsewhere
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and immigration is up
and not the good kind of immigration if there is such a thing
Sweden Norway Finland are boring countries so I can see how one would confuse that with family oriented
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LOL, "boring countries"!
Love it
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I mean the people are boring not the country lol
is that worse lol
oh well
the simple reason is most young women don't want to get married and have 3 children unlike the 1950s
This bomb has been ticking for decades and accelerated during covid
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I think governments need to reframe their approach toward this. People who have decided to be carefree and childless just won’t budge, no matter how much money you throw at them. They may even feel insulted because now a price tag is attached to their decision to exercise free will.
Better to focus on couples who already have 1-2 children and make the leap into having 3-4 kids.
But as a father of two, I can tell you honestly that I am so done with parenting babies and toddlers. Such a pain. What will help me reconsider is government-launched facilities, in which I can dump my children for a weekend afternoon and have a few hours of respite. I can’t be the only parent who feels this way. The socioemotional costs of raising children hurting me more than money
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Tough, true words. Dont envy you.
Also, Bryan Caplan says it's fine and less trouble than I think...?
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29 sats \ 1 reply \ @Aardvark 2h
TIME! we don't have any time! Who cares if daycare is free, the average family is still working over 80 hours to survive, who wants to deal with that mental load and have a family on top of it especially when that 80 hours barely pays the bills.
It's no wonder people were having kids when you could support a large family on 40 hours.
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rich enough you can trade some of that money for babysitting... plus, standard labor-leisure economics optimization
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More and more countries are joining the list. By 2100, just 12 countries — 11 in Africa and the tiny Pacific island state of Vanuatu — are expected to have fertility rates above the crucial level of 2.1 births per woman. Not a single country is expected to have a rate above 2.3 by the end of the century.
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A McKinsey report in January suggested many of the world’s richest economies, such as the UK, US and Japan, would need to at least double productivity growth to maintain historical improvements in living standards amid sharp falls in their birth rates.
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Women with low levels of education delay having children because of concerns about the stability of their relationships and the need to live near their parents. By contrast, those with a university education worry about dropping down the career ladder and want a hands-on partner, her research has suggested.
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A Danish travel company even ran an ad campaign to “Do it for Denmark”.
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Didn't i include that?
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pro immigrant advocates (who are really trying to destroy the West) say the future of the West depends on immigration
let's pretend they actually mean what they say
what is the gender ratio of immigrants to the west? 50/50? 90/10 male?
if 90 percent of immigrants are male, fertility rate doesn't improve even if we declare rape to be legal if you are a migrant
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