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How to legally stop paying income tax in America

506 sats \ 40 comments \ @john_doe 2 Feb Politics_And_Law

Did anyone watch this podcast "Can You Legally Stop Paying Federal Income Tax? With Peymon Mottahedeh"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bJPRrTIdV0

I found it quite interesting for all the jargon used in the law and its interpretation.

Based on the discussion in it, I am curious to hear and ask you what do you think of this as an (American or not) income tax payer. As mentioned in the podcast, it is hard to avoid consumption taxes. Set this apart, would you try to follow this route and stop filling tax reports from now on after listening to this podcast?

As a side note, I am not American, never been there, don't plan to go there, and I don't earn an income from a US company, so I am not really concerned by US law. However some time ago the IRS required me to fill a form after getting money from a hackathon. I didn't fill it because as mentioned earlier I am not American, never been there, etc. I felt a little bit worried at the time though as I knew what happened to Julian Assange and Edward Snowden for other political matters. I never got a complaint from the IRS afterwards though, so I can relate to what was said in the podcast, namely that the IRS does not have enough money to go after everyone.

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96 sats \ 28 replies \ @Undisciplined 2 Feb

I know people try this stuff, and I wish them the very best, but I think it fundamentally misunderstands what the state is.

If the state decides to come after your resources or make an example out of you, they aren't going to care about legal technicalities. Juries will not be sympathetic to tax evaders, either.

I'm sure @siggy47 will have a more thoughtful answer and I defer to his understanding.

103 sats \ 20 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 2 Feb

Personally, I think that not paying taxes required by the agency with the monopoly on force is foolhardy. Yes, you may be correct in all legal aspects, but has that ever stopped a criminal? Yes, they are criminals, they are robbers, thieves, highwaymen or whatever you wish to call them but they all have larceny in their hearts. Think about it, did gun controls ever stop a criminal from ignoring the laws. Isn’t that the definition of a criminal ”one who ignores the law”? People just have to understand this if they wish to live a life not behind bars.

44 sats \ 19 replies \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

I am quite on the same page than you. Furthermore criminals create rules for others, not for them, so they intentionally create exceptions to avoid following it.

To come back to Peymon Mottahedeh, on his website though he listed a good amount of cases won: https://www.freedomlawschool.org/step-4#Student-VC

31 sats \ 18 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Feb

I know there have been successful cases, and I'm very happy for those individuals.

My problem is that there are also people who get in the regime's crosshairs and, as Chuck Schumer said, they have six ways to Sunday to get you. Even just dealing with these court cases carries an immense cost in terms of time, money, and stress.

58 sats \ 15 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 3 Feb

If you want to avoid taxes, go ex-patriate. Once you leave the country, not to return, you will be surprised at the freedom you get. The only problem is passports.

31 sats \ 11 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Feb

You don't even have to go full expat. Just moving to one of the territories (Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, Greenland, etc) gets you out of federal tax obligations.

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

Besides passports, I would add international driver licenses as well. In Japan for example an international driver license is only valid one year. Unless you are in an easy going country like Cambodia, it becomes quickly an issue.

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43 sats \ 1 reply \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

I see. Breedlove tried to ask the question about the cost but IMHO he didn't get really a convincing answer in terms of time and stress, just in terms of money saved. If you care more about time and stress than money, then I understand.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 3 Feb

I would tend not to spend the money on the parasites of the BAR. They are state lackeys. FTS

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63 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 2 Feb

I think it fundamentally misunderstands what the state is.

I agree. People are selling a lot of confusion these days. I believe they do it deliberately to sell their words and benifit by it. They are people who know what to exactly sell to a mob.

71 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 2 Feb

Nope. You nailed it exactly. I know @Lux disagrees with us. I don't claim to be an expert. I just think that, in the end, the state has the threat of violence to put you away even if your legal arguments are sound.

91 sats \ 1 reply \ @Lux 2 Feb

Ifyou think you can or if you think you can't, you're right ;)

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 2 Feb

Yes, I think you can be correct here. How many people don’t know this secret?

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @Rothbardian_fanatic 2 Feb

Not only do they have that threat, they apply it with an unseemly gusto whenever they can. Just take Trump as an example, they went after him for a lot of bogus reasons, didn’t they?

35 sats \ 1 reply \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

Fair enough. I have heard in the State of Texas you don't have an income tax. if you live in another State which is not Washington, does it make you wonder why or would it make you reconsider what was discussed by Peymon Mottahedeh in the podcast?

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Feb

Texas and several other states have no state income taxes, but the feds still expect their pound of flesh.

I'm not sure exactly what would convince me to reconsider, since my view as that they will just come after you on some other pretext, even if you beat them on the tax arguments.

I will say that if I were single, I'd be much more willing to attempt some of these things.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @chungkingexpress 3 Feb

"I do not consent."

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scroogey 3 Feb

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22 sats \ 2 replies \ @rebel_nomad 3 Feb

Never try anything like this anywhere on the planet unless you are a super tiny fish, with no assets to grab!

It might work if all of you is off the radars, in such a way that anyone within the system that check you out will conclude that you are a destitute fuckup haha...

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

It sounds risky indeed, but Peymon Mottahedeh also provides a kind of refund mechanism by pooling money from everyone in case of trouble (and according to what he disclosed in the podcast his clients didn't run into troubles). I often saw cases where taxes were just used as a pretext to ruin the reputation of someone who doesn't fit politicians in power anyway. So IMHO paying taxes doesn't mean no issues at all, it just means you may not have issues if you don't disturb politicians in power.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @rebel_nomad 3 Feb

Oh, I am all for it! Also know that these things work to a certain degree, all I am saying that its better to do it when you hold as many cards as possible.

And yeah, it helps a lot to organize, we need this to spread across all of the failing West...

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @guts 2 Feb

You are not American you should not be worried of IRS

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

In essence, yes. The US administration applies American law overseas to foreigners when it sees fit though. But a) fortunately I am a nobody so no reason to strategically go after me, and b) I never had any reply anyway for ignoring their form.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 2 Feb

One legal way would be to elect leaders who remove the laws that require income tax. Or one could remove oneself from that tax jurisdiction.

You can’t avoid income tax via technicality or exploits. It’s not a program, it’s not a smart contract. There is no “one neat trick” that makes the state cry, “oh no, he got us!”.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

I am neither a lawyer nor American so I can hardly assess the legal aspect of it. But Peymon Mottahedeh claims that having an income tax in the US is in itself a technicality/exploit which goes back to the beginning of the 20th century if my understanding is correct.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 2 Feb

I'm not from America, I'm from India. Here you can avoid certain taxes, not because you can legally do it but by way of false keeping the accounts. So, it's a kind of criminal act in the eyes of state, if caught. I assume you can go against the state in any ways you choose to if you're prepared for the consequences that may range from simple penalties to life prison.

All those people who talk and keep on talking going against the state are the masquerades who know which words sell.

So, I'd say, first of all it's better not to go against the state. If you want real change go inside the state and try to alter the ways you deem would be better.

I've read something from Maya who is running for Suriname's office and a very pro Bitcoiner. #873190

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @john_doe OP 3 Feb

Fair enough. If cash is used, false keeping accounts could work pretty well. Peymon Mottahedeh in the podcast though claims that he doesn't go against the State, but uses the law and claims to interpret jargon in its original meaning.