Not every app needs zaps \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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2374 sats \ 32 comments \ @ek 11 Feb bitcoin

This is something I've been thinking about on and off but I did not have the time to actually explain myself in a longer post so far.

However, I just read #882158 so I want to get this out now and just see where this goes.

Or maybe a little bit of explanation:

If your app integrates zaps just for the sake of zaps, I don't think it needs zaps and it might actually make it worse. A lot of users won't be 'bitcoiners' as we know them now so they won't get it and just think you're weird to push money into every little corner of the internet, even where it might not belong.

For example, I don't zap on nostr because I see no reason except to virtue signal. Okay, that's not entirely true, but the few times I zap because someone was helpful, I feel like a more thoughtful reply about how they just changed my life would maybe have been better than a measly 21-100 sats zap.

Here on SN, zaps actually have some meaning with rewards, ranking, personalized feeds etc.

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100 sats \ 4 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 11 Feb

I've been thinking about this a lot in the context of Fountain, where the theoretically core experience (podcast listening) has gotten worse and worse (to the point where it's no longer capable of basic functionality like remembering where I paused a podcast or knowing how to skip ahead thirty seconds) as they've pushed zapping more and more. Bitcoin can be a powerful enshittification force.

In any app, zapping should enhance the experience, not get in the way of it.

55 sats \ 3 replies \ @MerryOscar 11 Feb

Sorry for the bad experience? What's the latest version of Fountain you've tried? (current is 1.1.16) Would you be able to share more specifics on what went wrong?

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 11 Feb

1.1.16 is what I'm on, but it's been ongoing for months (so likely over versions), ever since the big UI interface that added music to the feed. The dealbreaker is that it fails to remember where I paused a podcast something like 60% of the time. That's basic functionality for any podcast app. Sometimes it'll start back at the beginning, sometimes at just an earlier timestamp, but when it does it on a podcast like Hardcore History, it means ten minutes wasted trying to find where I was.

(And yes, this is on downloaded podcasts, not streams.)

The secondary basic functionality that's gone is the skip ahead feature, which seems to work early in episodes, but later in shows, often skips me back to the previous skip point (so if I'm at commercial break 2, I hit the skip ahead button and find myself at commercial break 1).

Again, these are basic, not advanced, podcast playing features, and it really feels like the focus on music and being a wallet is when they went away.

121 sats \ 1 reply \ @MerryOscar 11 Feb

Thank you for the detailed feedback this is very helpful and I will investigate all your points.

One thing we do know to be an issue is that sometimes if the offline library cache gets too big it can affect playback. In 1.1.16 we've introduced a storage manager that lets you view and clear specific offline caches like audio / images / library etc.

Can you try clearing your library cache and see if that resolves the issue?

Either way I'll take the detail you passed on and we'll try our best to replicate it.

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 11 Feb

My Library Cache shows 0 (the only cache with anything is images, which I just cleared). The Audio Downloads is the only other folder in Storage with any files at all.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @userbob6 11 Feb freebie

I take your opinion as somewhat of a given, that the Internet of money should not become an actual money internet.

But if we are to be assured such a future for the internet, we would stillhave great comfort in the ability to donate a coffee to whoever created the awesome thing we use, no matter where they are in the world.

As long as the content doesn't become too limited, donation will always be a choice. I don't see a problem with that choice being available on absolutely everything.

But I dread the world where everyone is a service that provides goods only to those who subscribe to one of their plans.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

I don't see a problem with that choice being available on absolutely everything.

I also don't see a problem with that, see #882175. I wrote this post very quickly and didn't explain myself very well.

74 sats \ 8 replies \ @k00b 11 Feb

If we imagine a future where everyone has a bitcoin node, I can imagine your presence online carrying a way to pay you. I think we can chock up a lot of the reasons not to add zapping to "it's early." There's definitely good reason to omit them - for now.

50 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

If we imagine a future where everyone has a bitcoin node, I can imagine your presence online carrying a way to pay you

Same here. 'zap me a coffee' buttons are fine

edit: Okay, if viewed from this angle, maybe zaps will indeed be fine in every app since they can at least just be intended as 'zap me a coffee' buttons 🤔

edit 2: Okay, I think what I actually have a "problem" with are pitches à la "X + zaps".

Adding zaps to X doesn't make X automatically better. (WIth X I don't mean what was formerly known as Twitter)

I think it's a very similar argument to the one you're making when someone says "bitcoin is going to the moon and our company uses bitcoin so we're going to the moon, too."

189 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b 11 Feb

Maybe it could be summed up as "developers/thotbois think in terms of buttons/features/forms - not incentives."

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

yeah I think that's it, now I can stop thinking about it haha

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

It does get kind of boring to boil everything down to incentives though. Is there really nothing else fundamentally?

It’s incentives all the way down?

okay I have clearly not stopped thinking about it haha

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 11 Feb

Human action/apption is incentives all the way down.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek OP 11 Feb

Mhh, I guess even love has the incentive to reproduce

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 11 Feb

*chalk up ... wen semantic checking

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 11 Feb

I disagree with this take. Saying only a measly 21-100 sats zap is missing the point. While your sat stack may view this as nothing I am sure millions around globe wish they could have the opportunity to capture that value.

I often think about people who collect cans, bottles and to return them to a store to get the $0.05 bottle deposit return. While most working individuals probably won’t deal with the hassle to pick up that can off the ground take it to a store and redeem it for $0.05. But someone looking for a way to earn extra money might.

I use the can example to show that value is subjective between each and every one of us. Collecting 21 /100 zaps a few times a week over a long period of time can add up! Which in the end can make it worth it. Just like picking up 1,000s of cans.

45 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

Saying only a measly 21-100 sats zap is missing the point. While your sat stack may view this as nothing I am sure millions around globe wish they could have the opportunity to capture that value.

Thank you, I was waiting for someone to mention this 👀

I agree with you, this is definitely something to consider.

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 11 Feb

Yeah when I was a kid my friends used to toss and throw away pennies because they thought they weren’t worth anything but I always thought every cent you can save is a net benefit no matter how small. Save a penny every day you will have $3.65 which back then can get you a lot of junk food at the corner store

91 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake 11 Feb

I will go out of my way to find someone good content for SATs...

57 sats \ 0 replies \ @expatriotic 11 Feb

Interesting take...

Regarding nostr specifically, I just think about my experience and apply it to others.

Why do I have 20 hearts on a nostr post, no comments and no zaps.

For me, boosts, quotes, comments and yes, zaps are way more impactful... SO that's what I do for others... If I like it, I zap AND send an emoji.

Plus I'm growing a brand and a blog, and I realized that I usually visit someone's profile to see if I should be following them (if I'm not) when they zap me.

So I try to zap more (what's 21 sats really?) because it may get me a new RSS feed sub.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatbad 11 Feb

"better than a measly 21-100 sats zap"

Bro.... this would be life changing money to me.

117 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

Okay, that's not entirely true, but the few times I zap because someone was helpful, I feel like a more thoughtful reply about how they just changed my life would maybe have been better than a measly 21-100 sats zap.

I think another reason to zap is because it’s still a novelty; "it’s cool to do it."

This won’t be the case forever.

35 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 11 Feb

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

no truth to be found here, only trolling, remember?

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 11 Feb

zapping a GM note with 21 sats is trolling, not V4V Saying that "zapping a note on nostr is virtue signaling", that is truth.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

thank you, wasn't sure someone would get it

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheWildHustle 11 Feb

I have the complete opposite view. Want NIP60 wallet in all things, and zap because it makes me feel good.

When someone sends me sats on nostr, I just assume they liked the post, not sure of I need any additional meaning associated with the 21 sats.

I hope putting wallets in everything doesn't detract too much from the UI/UX of nostr apps in 2030, and selfishly would like to see it become something of a reality.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

I should have clarified that zaps are cool, but they aren't going to make every app cool.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheMorningStar 11 Feb

Here on SN, zaps actually have some meaning with rewards, ranking, personalized feeds etc.

Yes, only "some meaning" now. Before it had much.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek OP 11 Feb

it has the same meaning as before we switched to CCs