I honestly think that they are grossly underpaid for the level of schooling required. Obviously im for the privatization of education, but what do you think a fair market would land on?
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72 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 16h
a lot; but that's because I would suck at controlling a classroom of noisy kids, and I'd pay PREMIUM to outsource it to the peeps who can.
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70 sats \ 9 replies \ @grayruby 17h
200k but I would fire 80% of teachers. Retain the best 20% and replace the rest with technology and some sort of teaching assistant or class supervisor that essentially babysits the class, makes sure kids don't kill each other etc.
In Canada we have a major problem with teacher's unions. These people don't care anything about kids or educational results. When kids score badly on standardized tests they complain about the way the tests are graded rather than fix the way they are teaching. Their primary goal seems to be to extract as much money and benefit out of the taxpayer as possible and then cry "what about the kids" when anyone suggests not giving them more money or benefits. The system is rotten.
Plus they teach down to the weakest student in the class and indoctrinate the kids with a bunch of political nonsense.
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40 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark OP 17h
Sounds eerily similar to the US system. I remember when I was young, our teachers would scare us that the school board was going to take away our favorite electives because of money. They were literally campaigning to children si we would run home and tell mommy and daddy to save art class.
Disgusting
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75 sats \ 7 replies \ @grayruby 17h
Teachers college is a very common path for people who don't know what they want to do with their lives in Canada and we end up with people who are attracted to the job due to the time off and perks rather than a passion for teaching.
One of my best friends is a teacher and even he seems to have been swallowed by the machine now. He used to have so much passion for teaching and tell me all these unique ways he was trying to present lessons to students but after 15 years or so he seems to be just going through the motions like anyone else because in the public school system and within the teacher's union only seniority and showing up matters. Excellence isn't a requirement, in fact it is frowned upon because it makes the other teachers look bad.
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70 sats \ 4 replies \ @Aardvark OP 17h
I wanted to be a teacher because of the time off too. It's probably better that I drive a truck.
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62 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 16h
I've always thought I could've been a long haul truck driver in another life. I like being alone and wouldn't mind a life spent on the road. All I need is a good gaming laptop to keep me satisfied. I'm just not sure if I'd have the physical or mental stamina.
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60 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark OP 16h
I did long haul for a couple of years. I thought the same thing as you, but it grinds you down over time.
Too much seclusion isn't good for you, thank God I'm local and home everyday now.
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62 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 16h
Makes sense. Yeah I think it probably sounds better than it really is... maybe good for a while but hard to live like that long term.
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72 sats \ 1 reply \ @SimpleStacker 17h
It's so sad, but true.
Ever visit r/teachers on Reddit? One of the most depressing places ever, for so many reasons. I genuinely feel bad for a lot of the teachers, but then like a Pavlovian dog they've been trained to seek out Marxist solutions.
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70 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark OP 17h
Sane people don't use reddit. It's literally a bot farm echo chamber. Don't let it get you too depressed, it's not real life.
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68 sats \ 16 replies \ @SimpleStacker 18h
I wouldn't say they are grossly underpaid. Entry level salaries aren't too bad. And they get a lot of job security and pensions that other people don't get, and they get very long vacations compared to most professions.
I think the bigger issue is that the actually good teachers, the ones who are "high agency" like the tech-bros like to say, can't really get rewarded for that agency. The compensation gradient is leveled artificially by public monies and unionization. If you really want to be rewarded financially for effort and talent, you cannot do so in a teaching career unless you go and start your own school or something.
Also, because of this, in cities full of highly compensated professionals, like NY, SF, and LA, teachers feel like they are poor among their similarly-educated peer group. Another reason for talented people to not want to go into teaching.
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72 sats \ 13 replies \ @Undisciplined 17h
The other element I'd add to what you're saying is that the job doesn't need to be as unpleasant as it currently is. Much of the aggravation teachers feel is because they're required to put up with egregiously bad behavior from students. Better administration, with an eye on fostering a good learning environment would make teaching a much more pleasant and rewarding job.
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40 sats \ 12 replies \ @Aardvark OP 16h
I hear just as bad behavior from parents too.
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42 sats \ 11 replies \ @Undisciplined 16h
Yes, and highly correlated with the bad student behavior. If administrators had the teachers' backs more often, it would actually be a very attractive job at the current rate of pay.
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27 sats \ 10 replies \ @Aardvark OP 16h
I still think they're underpaid for the level of education required.
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72 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 16h
Education degrees are by far the easiest to attain, so you have to deflate their value accordingly. Then, as others have noted, you have to account for the numerous non-monetary benefits of the job.
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24 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 16h
If you just compare the terminal degree (e.g. masters degree), that would be true. But I wouldn't necessarily call a "MA in Education" an actual education.
(Sorry, I know a lot of teachers who have Masters in Educations, and even some Ed.D's, but I'm going on the record and calling out your training!!)
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72 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 17h
I'm sure some are but I would be more likely to believe more are overpaid. But who knows.
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30 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark OP 17h
It's a government job, so probably
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Meani123 16h
Teachers and parents are supposed to be the foundation of a child's education not only with school stuff but also with helping them have a good moral compass. They deserve more pay but this would have to come with more determination and compassion to teach the kids both aspects I mentioned. Some teachers just don't care, only want their paycheck
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Butterfinger 14h
I am in favour of parental schools where the men work and the mothers teach, but it can only work in a small community/neighborhood where everybody knows everybody.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 17h
Honestly have no clue. The current market is so screwed up who knows.
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1 sat \ 5 replies \ @justin_shocknet 15h
Replace them all with a marketplace of gamified AI remote learning products that also guide the parent/caregiver through their role
Their pay is more time with their kids and no taxes
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0 sats \ 4 replies \ @unschooled 13h
Totally on board with this aspect.
However, I don't think AI replaces teachers like that. When automation starts to free up human capital, some parents will take on educating their own children. But most likely there will always be demand to outsource it to professionals.
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1 sat \ 3 replies \ @justin_shocknet 12h
The status quo of "Teacher" implies multiple disparate functions but that's also a large part of why the system is broken and expensive
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Curriculum design is where AI and other products offer expertise at scale
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The babysitting element, this is why most kids end up in public schools, parents work to pay taxes to the school system. There will still be caregivers hired by many families of course, or parents taking turns with their friends kids etc, but nevertheless way less specialized or "skilled" in the traditional sense than "teachers".
The 3rd function is basically a facilitator of sorts, like a substitute teacher, little more than a warm body that can follow instructions from the curriculum designer. This is really only a 1.5-2 hour per day job at the most when you extract it from the babysitting, and its not expertise based like the curriculum. Parents doing their own babysitting are the best people for this, their caregiver probably can as well.
The only professionals needed go into the product design, which scales and reduces cost whilst upping quality.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @unschooled 12h
The sense of teacher that is most optimistically viewed by most, but under a pretty damp blanket.
Leave all of the expertise to ai and the rest to a good caregiver, is what you're saying, but it probably won't play out like this.
The role of a teacher as mentor is much older than the state as you've depicted it. It won't go anywhere when suddenly their 'expertise' can be purchased at a nominally lower cost. Unfortunate as it is, many parents can't be bothered by this aspect of their child's upbringing and would pay for someone better than a "caregiver" whether by taxes or private lessons. That's also to say nothing of pupils who are old enough to have some of their own self-determination.
I understand folks tend to view this topic with rose colored glasses, but yours seems overly pessimistic.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 12h
Master / Apprentice relationships are a whole different thing sure, but for all practical matters references today about teachers are the post-industrial system that prepares kids to be cogs in a factory and have basic literacy to the extent they can follow instructions.
There will always be bespoke things, but then we can't speak in generalities about those like is the supposed purpose of the OP. It's already happening from what I've seen among fellow homeschoolers, people buying curriculum, sometimes that's just books othertimes its apps and online things, or a mix. The care is then insourced, the parent need only pick a curator for the curricula (which is far more effective than the state under any circumstance)
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @unschooled 11h
Where I'm from homeschoolers are the exception, but I'd totally agree that it's the preferred way.
90% of post-industrial era teachers are glorified babysitters, inefficiency doing what a parent is better suited to do.
The other 10% see themselves as masters of a craft, and from what Ive seen really can provide exceptionally more value than the average parent (that is if you cut out all the administrative bloat of running a govt school). AI and other tech definitely tips the scales in favor of parents, but still I think the homeschoolers will remain an exception since parents will always be needed in their own areas of expertise. I could be wrong.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 13h
anything non union
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @unschooled 13h
Whatever the free market dictates. Find a private tutor/teacher and pay them in Bitcoin. It is the future.
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