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A Stacker News bot that lets you exchange credits for sats anonymously.
Exchange rate: 2.00 credits/sat
Treasury: 11,272 credits
Treasury cap: 100,000 creditsHow To Use
- Create a lightning invoice with an amount > 1,000 sats which is valid for at least 24 hours
- Switch to @anon
- Mention the bot and include your lightning invoice:
@ccbank sell lnbc...
- Wait for the bot to reply with a quote, for example:
@anon Zap me 10,000 credits, then I will pay your 5,000 sats lightning invoice.
exchange rate: 2.00 credits/sat · you send 10,000 credits · bot receives 7,000 credits · payments can take up to 24h
As the footnote mentions, the bot will include the 30% fee between users in the amount you should send.
If your lightning invoice is amountless or is invalid for other reasons, the bot will reply with an error.
- Zap the bot the quoted amount from the account whose credits you want to sell.
- Wait for the payment
For security reasons, lightning invoices are not paid immediately for now. The bot notifies @ek to manually pay any lightning invoice. This means it can take up to 24 hours to get paid. If the payment doesn't arrive within 24 hours, please reach out to @ek on Stacker News or Signal.
Once @ek paid, the bot replies with a proof of payment. Anyone can use this proof to verify that the bot pays out.
Future versions might use PGP for encryption to hide the recipient's node pubkey in the lightning invoice. Only the payment hash and amount need to be public for payment verification.
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source code: https://github.com/ekzyis/ccbank
@ccbank sell lnbc50u1p4ftl6cpp5tyh9ya8yveg4mrwfwk5u4a2jmqwc7xhj07mvj79grwj5q86je0zscqzyssp5qgcmv4jqgj25asuuj6j4zecq3j36kh7qqymp6tj3l9pa57zpnhtq9q7sqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqsqqqqqysgqdqqmqz9gxqyjw5qrzjqwryaup9lh50kkranzgcdnn2fgvx390wgj5jd07rwr3vxeje0glcllun8vum6ldr6uqqqqlgqqqqqeqqjqym6ue5hpf6qztnqmf8hjzd07ympgjr8fdvprmy7x304ptj6rda3qhhqwc4myh96xks5gd22sfv56c0sdegr4qrm8yeqj2a7hk65gaagq4qxkmu
@anon Zap me 14286 credits, then I will pay your 5000 sats lightning invoice.
exchange rate: 2.857 credits/sat · you send 14286 credits · bot receives 10000 credits · payments can take up to 24h
Paid! Proof of payment: 57d157e9f6abba1298ff7b8c97e13af92e93a5936ee011b19eb3d32be561487a
Wow, exchange rate definitely out of market value!
Plus 30% fees? Can we call this scam?
Peer-to-peer transactions are much more affordable for both buyers and sellers. In this post I did some research and collected all the current offers for buying and selling cowboy credits with sats and vice versa. @ek, how have you defined your exchange rate? Can you also explain why the transaction needs to be done as anon?
It means the bot calculates for you how much you need to send for it to receive what it wants. It improves UX. What makes this a scam?
I want two credits per sat. This means senders need to send 2/0.7=2.857 credits per sat because 30% will not arrive.
I have plans for a floating exchange rate.
You don’t need to do it as anon, but why would you want to link your nym to a lightning invoice if you don’t have to?
~186% above market price... Anything above 17% is usury = scam. You didn't study business in college right?
That's what I thought, and why I asked how you do it.
Why you don't just ask for a lightning address instead? or you really want to know which node the invoice is coming from?
LOL, a lightning address returns lightning invoices
yes but your node see it and is better than publishing a lninvoice publicly.
I thought you were a smart guy that what you are revealing to be here, goint to contribute to Core and leaving SN for a good cause. Is you account being hack? Why wasting your time playing this bankster bs with cc?
Dude, you think a lightning address is more private than a lightning invoice? A lightning node does not care about lightning addresses. It can only pay lightning invoices. Anyone can fetch as many lightning invoices from your lightning address as they want. A lightning address is worse because you’re also revealing a nym and domain.
I could say the same to you
Forgot you're still a kid. Keep playing, be safe. Hopefully you'll learn something.
Continue to believe a lightning address is more private than a lightning invoice
lmao
I should make a post about it so others don’t make the same mistake
You ignored the part of my reply that explained to you that you’re wrong
It’s not 186%.
With the current exchange rate, I send 0.5 sats for every credit I receive. @0xbitcoiner sends 0.6 sats: #1559839
Therefore, you will receive 10% more if you use @0xbitcoiner‘s exchange rate.
Please explain 186%?
This exchange is a scam.
And SN have a flaw in the rewards system. If you are smart you better use wisely those CCs to get back sats in rewards.
Thanks for confirming @ek
This wasn’t me. This exchange is not a scam. This @anon was @DarthCoin.
Is good that you think like that. Now any anon will be a darth. Nobody will know.
Any anon posing as Darth will be a perfect disguise.
Strange thing.
When Darth was active on SN, ek was posting as anon.
Now when Darth left SN, ek says that Darth is posting as anon.
Is ek in fact Darth ?
Darth value much more his sats than any anon. As anon you must pay with sats. Darth was using CCs only, will not waste his sats for a meaningless reply on SN.
Ok, g'luck on your new business.
How do you know?
If your issue is with the exchange rate, what do you think would be a fair exchange rate?
Your website is confusing because it doesn’t clarify whether the exchange rate is based on the amount sent or the amount received.
My exchange rate is the same as @SimpleStacker’s 0.5, assuming he meant 0.5 based on the amount he will receive.
He’s repetitive
I'm no one to define a fair exchange rate. I defined my, within the ~AGORA territory, with sybil fees included, to 0.91 sats/ccs #1323640 so buyer get 91sats each 100ccs
Sure
source
Thinking about it again after reading the thread, maybe this isn’t as clear as it could be. It could even lead to a situation where the CC seller doesn’t have enough CCs, because you’re asking for an invoice for however many sats the seller wants to receive. After doing the math, they might not actually have enough CCs.
I think the best way would be:
@ek
Thank you for the feedback!
I considered this. It requires an additional roundtrip for the lightning invoice. I think that’s unnecessary. The biggest issue with exchanging credits for sats is the UX currently IMO. So I’m optimizing for that to get a market with some liquidity started. For now, if you don’t like the quote of the bot, don’t zap it.
The bot will publish the current exchange rate in its bio soon. This should help here.
Just to make sure I got this right: right now, a transaction requires 1 comment from the CC seller and 2 from the bot. With my approach, it would be 2 from the bot and 2 from the seller. Is that right?
Yes. Roundtrips / Interactivity requirements are terrible for UX and DX.
(I should have said 0.5 roundtrips, because asking for a lightning invoice means there’s one message more, not two, like in a roundtrip.)
It’s a personal choice, but I’d rather not risk the CC seller not having enough CCs and having to generate another invoice and submit another order. Plus, I think it’s clearer for the CC seller, even if it means one extra comment.
Usage: @ccbank sell <invoice> Exchange credits for sats. <invoice> must be a mainnet lightning invoice with an amount that is valid for at least 24h.This is cool and very convenient but I will offer better rates
I plan to update the bio daily with the latest exchange rate.
Just testing the waters for now.
Are you going to go all the way to 90%?
You mean 91% because of the founder cut on zaps?
I could only do that if I forced the bot to post exclusively in my territory. I don’t want to do that. ~security has nothing to do with @ccbank.
Founders can choose to use the bot in their territory. Anyone using it in ~econ will be good for you!
I was planning on pocketing that 1%
It’s 21% though 🤔. We could make a deal that the bot can only be used in ~econ 👀
But idk, why would I do that?
I could imagine doing that just for roleplaying reasons haha
If only you had a territory
If only founders would want to work together to make this a better place so we all profit
Usage: @ccbank sell <invoice> Exchange credits for sats. <invoice> must be a mainnet lightning invoice with an amount that is valid for at least 24h.stfu, nobody was talking to you, lol
:(
Btw, you can also subscribe to the bot’s comments and try to front-run any trade. I’d love to see more liquidity in the market.
Or, you could just tag me in every comment and then it doesn’t even matter if I want to subscribe
Hey, I’d definitely consider that!
I’m sure there’s a great way for @ccbank to kick-start a P2P market here with anyone on both sides. You won’t even need to leave the site to trade (except to generate a lightning invoice).
Usage: @ccbank sell <invoice> Exchange credits for sats. <invoice> must be a mainnet lightning invoice with an amount that is valid for at least 24h.No credits to sell?
Right now I’ve got loads of them, but they’re not for sale. Funny enough, I’m actually one of those guys who buys CCs too, and I’d even offer a better price than you! 👀 #1349267
I don’t understand the order book, and @AGORA wasn’t very helpful. Is the exchange rate based on what you send or what you receive? What’s yours?
I want to buy them cheap for territory rent.
In my case, I pay 0.6 sats for every 1 CC. I already include the sybil fee, and that’s the only thing I’m unsure about the other orders. There’s no way to know for sure if the sellers/buyers included it in the price.
Exactly, which is why @ccbank mentions "you send" and "bot receives“:
So interpreted from the receiver‘s side, @ccbank‘s current exchange rate is 0.5.
I think that description is pretty clear. That’s right!
my order:
exchange rate: 0.6 sat/cc · you send 100 cc · 0xbitcoiner receives 70 cc · you receive 60 sats
exchange rate: 1.(6) cc/sat · you send 100 cc · 0xbitcoiner receives 70 cc · you receive 60 sats
I like the first order description better!
you are not considering sybil fees. If 0.5 was the rate, buyer should zap 10000ccs, bot receive 700ccs you pay 500sats.
But your bot let the buyer pay the sybil fees on top of your exchange rate. That's why I consider it as buying offer with 0.35 exchange rate.
Seller is usually, but not always, the one paying the tx fees. Imagine you go to a shop and the merchant tells you there's a 3% extra charge if you pay with card.
seller should zap 1000ccs? right?
or
seller should zap 10000ccs, bot receive 7000ccs you pay 5000sats?
You sure? What do you think I’m doing here:
I think you are confused because there are many ways to express an exchange rate, and my way of expressing it doesn’t match yours.
Usage: @ccbank sell <invoice> Exchange credits for sats. <invoice> must be a mainnet lightning invoice with an amount that is valid for at least 24h.Sorry to hear I wasn't useful, I perhaps assumed all the information was already on the page.
There are two exchange rates, one for selling and one for buying. Both calculated as average of current offers. The 0.75 you see at the top is the average between the two giving a generic value of CC/SAT exchange rate. Different from the one SN advertise to sell
1cc=1sat.I'll work again in that page and ensure the information is clearer. Is there anything else you think could be improved?
@ccbank sell lnbc10n1p4fd6hfsp506rnlvyzve4c4mljfh748hf32g95grtdxrxxzkav39q6n9nfvgjspp50kwqw65m4lj9rtf99jee0n07s4qw9rr6kvsa026q4emtqqed2nfshp5uwcvgs5clswpfxhm7nyfjmaeysn6us0yvjdexn9yjkv3k7zjhp2sxq9z0rgqcqpnrzjqw5nhpalnuzjhr5x94g7hwkyee0f0d05zd6k8n239p2g6l6e0rw6jr55wgqqp4gqqqqqqqqqqqqqdeqq2q9qxpqysgqjz840qm9nfjrqmczt5wxdkj9gurnrxypugxf04kv22sjnwf72dn9jfssr4r97yqpc9qenrqv5mjfl609nls4kup4fwk4yy276w4jwvgq8cupp5
@0xbitcoiner Zap me 3 credits, then I will pay your 1 sats lightning invoice.
exchange rate: 3.000 credits/sat · you send 3 credits · bot receives 2 credits · payments can take up to 24h
Paid! Proof of payment: f7b57bed4ac3628369670d0b461ebb1589c9a9391b584f32e5365617c080ea6f
I'll now add a minimum exchange amount, because you've successfully made me pay more in network fees than I received in credits. Congratulations! I hadn't considered this issue with small amounts, haha
I did it on purpose so the mistake would cost you something. Hahaha!
By the way, this confirmation reply should be a reply to the poriginal order comment, because the way it is now, I don’t get a notification. @ek
Ohh, thank you, will fix! I forgot that getting notified about replies of replies is a separate setting.
You can try again with a small amount if you want.
Get more Sats for your CCs
Don't give your cowboy credits to a bank, sell them P2P instead! As territory founder, I can offer you a 21% rebate when you sell your CCs in the ~AGORA territory. My offer is clean:
You get 0.91 sats for each CC you zap
Read more #1560485
@ccbank sell lnbc10n1p4fduj5sp5598cvjssf6g53hhh8eja474vy5x7lcfzplrrkct3pnk3myglfhlqpp54lal7c24uzehjxvm5wfsyz5qw22ruvypkk2085v9d9g5cjvsc0lqhp5uwcvgs5clswpfxhm7nyfjmaeysn6us0yvjdexn9yjkv3k7zjhp2sxq9z0rgqcqpnrzjq25carzepgd4vqsyn44jrk85ezrpju92xyrk9apw4cdjh6yrwt5jgrj6cyqqzhcqqqqqqqqqqqqqraqq2q9qxpqysgqd9t8hr02kvsr6eyspd6ujxwl0fh3jsrksuxmsfmv7th0zvch4fd3st9a7pc5k3hg7fxm3yx56394lvd97sjg8yp6fhezykp7rnz0h2sqrvfl8f
@0xbitcoiner Sorry, invoices must be for at least 1000 sats, but yours is for 1 sats.
Howdy @ccbank and welcome to SN
Just want to introduce you to the ~AGORA marketplace, a little corner to buy or sell your products and services with other stackers and obviously use bitcoin
P2Pas a medium of exchange.We also discuss business, sales and amazing deals in the bitcoin space.
Read this intro guides, tips and tricks whenever needed, and if you have any feedback or suggestion on how we can make this space more useful to you, please do get in touch with @AGORA and @AG!
Wish you great and prosperous times around this wonderful corner of the Wild West Web!
Stay humble, stack sats ;)
Usage: @ccbank sell <invoice> Exchange credits for sats. <invoice> must be a mainnet lightning invoice with an amount that is valid for at least 24h.Great joke @ek, this at least is a better offer when compared with your previous one lol