Are bitcoin-only online marketplaces unworkable at scale? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Are bitcoin-only online marketplaces unworkable at scale?

604 sats \ 15 comments \ @stack_harder 5h bitcoin

I would love to have a place like etsy that was sats only, i've played with some of the decentralised ones like shopstr.store, and I can't see away around the trust issue

Without a platform handling disputes, the buyer has to trust that the seller won't disappear with the sats The buyer might also be uncomfortable with their address and identity being revealed when buying something.

But if there was a big entity running the show, think etsy etc, it would basically solve these issues, but would be a kyc cuck fest because they would be forced to collect and remit all data, just like any commerce site

What do yoiu think? sure people can use po boxes and things like that, but that's always going to be a less-than-optimal fix imo

what do you guys think, could there be a software solution to this? like an escrow and release when a valid tracking number is uploaded to confirm an order etc? (which still doesnt solve address privacy of course)

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100 sats \ 3 replies \ @nullcount 1h

Your ecomm store is saying "no" to tons of sales if you're not accepting Apple Pay yet. Why?

Its not because Apple Pay has the best privacy, or is the "safest" with respect to escrow, trust, etc. Its not even the tech that is superior.

Its because most people have an iPhone. That's it.

Apple has 92% of the digital wallet market share. They process $6 Trillion per year.

I don't think even 1% of people have access to a Bitcoin wallet loaded with sats they can spend on a whim.

Its not that bitcoin is unworkable at scale. Its just unworkable. Unless your business is only targeting those 1% of people with sats to spend, there is no scale to work with in the first place.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @stack_harder OP 1h

i dont have an ecom store, when i did, i accepted all the usual payment methods etc

this is more of an idealistic thing where it would be nice to have a robust, non kyc platform for people to buy and sell in sats, without the accompanianing worries

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @nullcount 44m

If a business is competing based on "ideals", its unlikely they'll compete well on the other things you probably care about: quality, consistency, price, etc.

I want to buy the best from the best. I don't care about spending the best money while doing it. In fact, I'd rather avoid spending good money, if possible.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 42m

sure, but im not a business, my income is from my actual business, this is a bit of fun

527 sats \ 2 replies \ @justin_shocknet 4h

Back in the day there was a very successful eBay clone of sorts called BitMit, it was so successful in fact that it shut down after the price pumped... because why would you risk running something like that once you've made hundreds of millions of dollars in Bitcoin?

I can't remember if it had escrow, but reputation was a big part of it. Reputation is the key. Escrow is easy once you have reputation for the escrow provider.

Also the kind of things in the marketplace matters, crafts and bullshit like Etsy hosts don't need the finality or censorship resistance of Bitcoin...

BitMit was really big for giftcards for example, and that has obviously become its own industry since with the likes of BitRefill/BTCCO/Paxful

The next obvious marketplace using Bitcoin for MoE will be other PoW type services, like we're seeing with AI/Compute/Storage resources.

Everyone selling cloud/data services will need the finality and granularity of Lightning to remain competitive very soon, that's a marketplace. Cutsie t-shirts and mugs with mom jokes on them comes way later.

17 sats \ 1 reply \ @stack_harder OP 2h

reputation systems are key, but i dont know what the best ones are, short of a large amount of feedback for a user. gaming amazon reviews and things like that is a huge business and problem for them

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2h

Yea it's a tricky problem, chicken and egg factor, also there's no real consensus around an identity layer on which to build one.

Amazon is a great example of botted reviews, but it mostly works only due to the nature of fiat being reversible so Amazon is a defacto escrow.

Anything new based on Bitcoin you're inherently outsourcing reputation to the centralized entity running the marketplace, so I think bonding will be a factor, otherwise without KYC where does the coordinator inherit reputation from?

WoT relays to deal with spam on Nostr are a signal IMO, if Nostr can get a little more traction as an identity layer it provides something to built a WoT and therefore reputation systems out of.

17 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 4h

Great topic. My biggest hang up is definitely the link to my home address and personal identity.

Even when I do order something, I’m then reluctant to discuss it online, which stinks for the merchants because they should be getting reviews and recommendations and I’d like to provide them.

I think we’re just going to get more comfortable with this as we use bitcoin more and more bitcoin spenders will let us hide in the crowd a little.

74 sats \ 3 replies \ @AG 2h

for the address, there are various options to keep it secret or alternatively use an intermediary service that protect your anonymity.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2h

what would be some of the options? i'm only familiar with po boxes

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @AG 2h

I've a draft ready for a post about this. The main issue I see is that a lot changes depending on the region seller/buyer are.

I'll try to provide some national (for as many regions I can find) and international options.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2h

good material for a post

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @AG 2h

We are planning to offer optional escrow service in the ~AGORA marketplace. Do you think it could help?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2h

i think it helps for sure

35 sats \ 0 replies \ @037447d9ca 3h

Multisig escrow:

create a 2-of-3 multisig vault
one key for the seller
one key for the buyer
one key for the escrow

escrow can now do dispute resolution without holding the funds