Why people are cheering up for El Salvador BTC reserve ? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Why people are cheering up for El Salvador BTC reserve ?

1035 sats \ 40 comments \ @DarthCoin 9h bitcoin

I see lately many cheering up online posts when ES gov is supposedly buying the dip. Why people are so dumb to fall for this scam? Why people do not ask the pertinent questions about this issue?

Questions to be asked:

IF a government (that in fact is a CORPORATION) is buying BTC as reserve, WHO really own that BTC? Because people / shitizens cannot do or decide anything about that reserve. They just pay taxes like idiots.
If you cannot do or decide anything about that reserve, then why are you cheering up for it?
Does that gov really buy BTC? Or they just pretend to do it, and Bitfinex is just moving around the BTC from one wallet to another, faking the whole thing ? Because let's be clear: El Salvador gov (corporation) is owned by Tether/Bitfinex. Oh you don't know that? DYOR.
Bitcoin is to empower the individual not a gov (corporation). If a gov is buying and holding BTC, then what will remain for the people to use? Some bullshit Tether tokens? Is always the centuries old scam that seems people forget:

The only way a gov could use BTC is to mine it. The generated BTC from mining, then is used to sustain all gov / public spending, for public infrastructure, gov services etc. And in this way the BTC are going back to circular economy.

But that will never happen, is just an utopia.

Just think about these aspects, before cheering up every time El Salvador gov is "buying" BTC.

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223 sats \ 8 replies \ @optimism 9h

Does anyone know of a model for what hoarding does to the hoarder? Remember the "Ver trying to sell his coins" drama, where he allegedly could not do it without destroying the market? This would mean that was no buyer of last resort for his coin, or at least not at an exchange rate he was comfortable with. Will there be a buyer for El Salvador, or Saylor's stash, for that matter, without a 90% OTC discount? Tether just making the printer go brr?

118 sats \ 7 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 9h

The thing is that these hoarders will never sell and will "buy" all they can get because they are backed by the guys with the printer.

The important question is: what are you going to use if all these scammers are hoarding let's say 90% of all BTC? You are forced (again) to use their IOUs and crap tethers... we are back in the same shit.

When I see people cheering up for this crap, I see them cheering up for their own slavery.

125 sats \ 6 replies \ @optimism 9h

That's been a narrative already - "just use Solana/Tron USDT because we've priced you out of Bitcoin." This was probably the worst narrative we've encountered thus far and I disliked the narrative change on Bitcoin Twitter where suddenly "USDT is ok" even though it's the worst possible mirage of freedom.

With LN, there is an inverse mechanic where more usage makes transacting less costly rather than more as on L1, which means we should be able to defeat the cost narrative as users.

Hoarding still doesn't help though, but ultimately, hoarded riches will cost money; just have to be hawkish on not falling into their traps.

226 sats \ 5 replies \ @Scoresby 6h

This may not quite align with what you are asking, but it made me think of this line from Cryptoeconomics Reservation Principle

The purpose of a reserve currency is to tax.

If countries like ES buy bitcoin with fiat money (even if in ES's case, they don't actually control the printer), it would seem like the reason to do so is to later issue a new money against it? The playbook already happened with gold: states mostly hold it, while people hold paper.

123 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 6h

Yeah that part largely underlines what Darth said about "90% hoarded" too above.

However, unlike gold, Bitcoin's definition is in the hands of those who accept it in trade.

I like this principle from Voskuil. The question I have: at what % liquid Bitcoin does this fail? It could be lower than 10%, because I suspect that we're probably close to that already ¹. LN is also operating with < 5k BTC in routable capacity.

I expect to have more data later when cloudflare isn't being the single point of failure we've talked about for years; I was hoping to get a glance at https://studio.glassnode.com/dashboards/cointime-economics - but no, lol. ↩

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 4h

<ot>imagine finally getting your link served only to find that you need a premium account to access it</ot>

Best one without being paywalled I could find quickly was from chainexposed.com

Does anyone have a good script? If not exist, I'll put it on my todo.

Either way, I was wrong about how much utxo are hoarded... almost 40% is younger than a year.

105 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 6h

they don't actually control the printer

wrong... they are backed by the Tether guy not the USD guy...

In fact ES is not buying any BTC, not with USD, not with USDT. they are just puppets to show the world how nice they move BTC from one wallet to another, owned by Bittfinex.

202 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 6h

they are backed by the Tether guy not the USD guy

This is the real bottom line issue, isn't it? "fake fiat possibly backed by fiat and 100% censorable by the admin key".

You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy. Eat zhe bugs.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 6h

LOL you start making good memes

100 sats \ 9 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 9h

I don’t know if this sounds a bit naïve, but it would be interesting if governments started buying Bitcoin and then replaced their national currency by buying it back from citizens, that way Bitcoin would actually become real legal tender. As for El Salvador buying it, that’s just pure publicity to get people to buy the dip!

133 sats \ 6 replies \ @optimism 8h

Why would you want resistance money to be adapted by those you're resisting?

100 sats \ 3 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 8h

I told it might sound kinda naïve! Hahaha

54 sats \ 2 replies \ @optimism 8h

Yeah I'm just trying to take away doubt in the best way I can think of: asking questions.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xbitcoiner 8h

My idea is naive because governments would never do that, doing it would actually free their citizens, and that’s the last thing governments wanna do.

33 sats \ 0 replies \ @optimism 8h

If you buy back your fiat, you're reducing debt. Why reduce if you can default? It's like taking ownership of a problem that isn't yours.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 8h

hahaha good question !

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1h

Bitcoin is resistance money against the Jewish bankers who own your government. You cannot completely remove the need for government itself.

If you think you can then go on - go live somewhere there is no government and see how you like it. But you will not because you are not suicidal or insane, are you?

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin OP 9h

Bitcoin can never be a legal tender and I think I explain it several times here. Legal tender literally means DEBBT. Bitcoin is not debt, it is credit. If you don't have it, you cannot spend it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 1h

Credit can be used to settle debts.

Why do you refuse to use Bitcoin here on SNs where it is one of the few places we can use Bitcoin as a p2p payment protocol?

You appear to be a hypocrit.

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @softglitter2d 9h

It's important to understand the context of El Salvador of why are they buying bitcoin. Before they started purchasing any satoshi, their debt was almost 90% of their GDP, which is a lot and the IMF cut off all communication, thinking that Bukele will enter in reason to talk to them, so he found bitcoin as a mean to attract investment to his country.

Meaning? Bukele wasn't interested of being a revolutionary goverment, he needed money and bitcoin ecosystem gave him in exchange of silence. While we talk about this, also consider that El Salvador is with state of siege more than 800 days, which is a little tiny detail and also recall that Bukele took the Parliament with his own hands. Seems most bitcoiners just turn around this part of the story also.

And lastly but important: ES is not turning itself in a bitcoin paradise, by not any means. Not my words but locals themselves are saying this because this was forced to take bitcoin.

89 sats \ 12 replies \ @SqNr65 5h

A government is not a corporation darth, don't be ridiculous

Bitcoin is going to be the money of the entire world. That means all governments and all entities of all kinds will deal in Bitcoin. But they don't all deal in Bitcoin yet. Bitcoin being the money of the world is what we want, that's the goal. So when early adopters adopt it early, we cheer as progress is being made towards the goal of everyone adopting it.

Like it or not (and I certainly do not), governments provide certain services to the population. most people are onboard with this. A broke mismanaged government is not what people want. A financially healthy and well financed government is what people want. This move helps the government become more financially healthy and well financed, so people like it.

I know you're prolly going to rail about how things aught to be, but this is how things are.

2 sats \ 11 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 5h

LOL you have no idea. ALL govs are corporations. Did you check their DUNS number?

#65641

governments provide certain services to the population

like fucking all things and killing people? People provide services not governments. Govs are just stealing money from people. Please stop being such a statist, is lame.

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @SqNr65 5h

I know I know, you've already made posts railing about how things aught to be.

Again, this is how things are. Your post does an excellent job of outlining the difference between a government and a corporation. They do not behave in the same way at all, they're not governed by the same incentives and constraints, they perform fundamentally different functions.

I know you think people are stupid and should not treat the government as any different than a corporation but again, this is simply how you think things aught to be.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 5h

You have no idea how this fucked up world works... maaan you are really living in a cage, in a continuous cognitive dissonance

Your belief in a government is really disturbing.

66 sats \ 5 replies \ @SqNr65 4h

I'll give 1 example out of many possible ones.

The government has the power to set rules that all corporations must follow. No corporation has this power. Only government does.

That alone sets it apart, and makes it incorrect to state that the government is a corporation.

Wether you think this is how it should be or not is a different matter. Wether you think this is only because people are stupid and brainwashed is is irrelevant. This is how it is. I don't think this is how it should be. I don't support this state of affairs. But I acknowledge that this is the reality.

It's fine to think things should be a certain way. It's not fine to pretend they are that way when they are not. That's the difference between idealism and delusion.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 4h

No they do not have any power over me. Without my consent nobody have any power over me. But if you give your consent, then is your problem not mine. Do not try to put me in the same cage you are in.

Please show me that proof, document, from where a government have any authority over me. Where did I sign that and give the power to somebody ?

A gov will be in power as long the dumb people will continue to give their consent.

66 sats \ 3 replies \ @SqNr65 4h

Darth, focus. You're not responding to what I said, you're responding to a conversation you're having by yourself in your own mind. I didn't say they have power over you. I said they are not a corporation and to pretend they are is delusional.

"A gov will be in power as long the dumb people will continue to give their consent."

This is exactly my point. You know that the government is in power and you know why. Wether it's dumb for people to do this or not does not materially affect the real true fact that they are in power and that their power and behavior is very different from a corporation.

You know all this Darth, why are you pretending otherwise?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 3h

Do you know what is DUNS number? Every fucking commercial company in the world must have a DUNS number. Ok now look at this: every fucking government in this fucked up world have a DUNS number... govs are CORPORATIONS.

https://itnjcommittee.org/resources/corporations-posing-as-governments/

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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 5h

Governments are crucial enablers of the economy and security of citizens.

Without government no strong economy can exist- there are no property rights, security or rule of law.

You are free to go somewhere there is little or no government but you will not because you are not insane or suicidal, are you?

But you are a hypocrit because you cling like a baby to the nation state and the security and economy it enables for you to live under.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @CliffBadger 1h

Without government no strong economy can exist- there are no property rights, security or rule of law.

Government is the entity that specializes in violation of property rights. But you want to give it credit for protection of property rights. Your brain is a square circle.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 58m

Without government how are property rights enforced? How do I defend my land and assets from those who would seek to take it from me?

Without government it is the law of the jungle- the strongest can seize property from the weakest with impunity.

Government recognises this and puts itself in place as the strongest entity but where it is well operated it can and dose protect property rights in such way that wealth security and prosperity can develop.

Government is a natural role that has evolved from the nature of humans as humans are weak and greedy as individuals but can achieve much greater strength as a group. Of course there are trade offs with government but overall it has proven an essential part of any human community.

You ascribe only bad attributes to government but in fact it is a human construct and is made up of humans and so is variable in quality just like humans.

Not all government is bad. There has only ever been sustained wealth and prosperity where there is good government. We need to fight for it and not completely give up on the entire thing because without good government we are more or less fucked.

15 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 7h

The best reason I can think of is that governments with bitcoin holdings will likely be less hostile to bitcoiners and bitcoin, other things equal.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @itsrealfake 1h

El Salvador gov (corporation) is owned by Tether/Bitfinex. Oh you don't know that? DYOR.

I did not know this. Not sure even where to begin with that research project.

75 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin OP 1h

Start here: #1042943 and #1059310

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 5h

At least El Salvador is enabling citizens to use Bitcoin as a MoE - unlike Darthcoin who while capable of using Bitcoin on SNs refuses to- instead using CC shitcoins.

Darthcoin is boycotting Bitcoin MoE and his example is causing others to stop using Bitcoin here on SN where we have the opportunity to build a circular bitcoin economy but @DarthCoin is undermining it.

Hypocrit.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 13m

Just because they love it

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @spiderman 8h

I suspect many who got in at the top of the market (GBP 90K+) are now looking for any reason or consolation in terms of price action, hoping that the news from El Savador will give some relief from the perma-bears!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @clr 8h

Because they want NGU no matter what.

Footnotes

You'll own nothing, and you'll be happy. Eat zhe bugs.