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10 sats \ 17 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan \ parent \ on: DOJ Releases New Indictment of Maduro On Charges of Narco-Terrorism Politics_And_Law

Of course there's a major double standard at play, but I am curious what due process looks like in an international case like this.

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69 sats \ 11 replies \ @siggy47 3 Jan

I never saw how they really could justify Noriega either. Might makes right. No point trying to pretend it's legal.

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36 sats \ 10 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

I did just check with Noriega and he was also someone that could be classified as an illegitimate leader. Noriega annulled the 1989 Panamanian general election after he lost.

Not sure if it was a factor but it was something that happened.

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79 sats \ 9 replies \ @siggy47 3 Jan

Under that argument, would it have been justifiable for Russia to forcibly pull Biden out of the White House in 2021?

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105 sats \ 8 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

I mean I wont lie I do think Biden won to be frank.... that being said I dont have a great answer beyond what the internal community thinks and how they feel.

Venezuelans did not like him and voted against him. When they had tried to protest they were shot and arrested.

Though as someone who isnt a fan of us playing world police I feel like this was a unique circumstance. Not saying its right but the specific things lined up like this being in Americas back yard.

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79 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 3 Jan

Look, are Venezuelans better off today than yesterday? Almost certainly. But for us in the US, do we really believe that we live under some semblance of a constitutional government? Congressional War Powers is now a complete farce.

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105 sats \ 2 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

It is pretty wild to look at our government. Something I am not sure of but since it has been mentioned is what was done under Monroe when it came to his doctrine.... I honestly dont have any idea on what all was done back then off the top of my head so has the creep been going on since then?

Its clear that 9/11 has forever changed how military action is done but between the revolutionary war and WWII what was the way it was done.

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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

Good question. I don't think most of Westward Expansion came under formal war declarations, for instance, and somehow that all came under US control.

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105 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

I do want to say to you and @siggy47 I appreciate this conversation! It really makes you think and look not only at what we have done now but historically and what the Constitution stated.... it just blows my mind when I look at it and think about it....

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79 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 3 Jan

I guess you can look at it as much more legitimate than the usual CIA regime changes we usually engage in. It was more transparent with a whole elaborate legal pretense.

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36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

Not gunna lie.... its pretty sad that we have to compare what was done to a CIA operation but you are spot on....

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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

The point isn't whether or not he won, because no one can know for sure. The point is that allowing uncertainty in whether it was legitimate to serve as a justification for removing a leader is a dangerous position (if it were to be applied generally, which obviously it won't be).

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69 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

I agree with you. This is something that really only the U.S. could do and escape scott free. If even Europe tried to do this I think there would be hell to pay but because its the US and in the US backyard people/countries are more like... eh

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69 sats \ 4 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

However there is a stark difference in one being a legitimate leader and one who isnt. That kinda the line I point at. If Maduro was a legitimate leader than this is an entirely different thing.

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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

That raises another question though about how legitimacy is determined. I was convinced that he didn't win the election too, but he did secure power and claimed to have done so legitimately.

It seems like, if that's what makes this valid, then they'd have to demonstrate first that he did not actually win the election. Otherwise, why not just make that claim about anyone?

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69 sats \ 2 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan

So my understanding is that part of this is also based on the former Military Intelligence Leader that the US arrested and was sent to jail a few years ago. My understanding is he provided a heck of a lot of data and info so there could be something there.

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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 3 Jan

Interesting, I missed that story.

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69 sats \ 0 replies \ @Cje95 OP 3 Jan
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