pull down to refresh
I guess that's a whole different issue that addresses the SN zapping system. As it stands, if I'm correct, anyone can boost the hell out of any crap post they choose. If downzaps ensue, the territory owners get the benefit of those downzaps, no? (I'm not certain about that) Then the territory owners are further rewarded by the ensuing tit for tat zap war.
I don't think it's a different issue.
You get the benefit of the boost, for 70%, not the downzap - that goes 100% to rewards.
So say opti turns scammer. I post my scam on ~bitcoin_beginners. Options:
- I don't boost, just pay the post fee. That means you got 70% of 21 sats. If it is bad content, no problem, it will not get upzapped because it is a scam, and we'll forgive you for not bothering to use those 15 sats for a downzap. Whatever.
- I boost 20k. I'm now both on frontpage
litand the ~bitcoin_beginnerslitand forevertop. You just received 14k sats, rewards earned 6k. This is a bribe. You get bribed most because it's your territory. Rewards get bribed less. If you accept the 14k, you sold 70% of the ad space. To opti the scammer. And reward-eligible stackers sold the other 30%.
I see. So your argument is that a territory owner is duty bound to downzap, or they (me) are guilty of accepting a bribe? You don't think that's an awards issue?
Also, you are now forcing territories to be de facto moderated?
The rewards issue is people liking getting free sats and not giving 2 shits about how they earned it. A.k.a. greed. Which is the defacto standard of the world we live in so no point in fighting that.
Re: guilty of accepting a bribe. Yes. It's up to you whether you accept the bribe or not, though. Complete freedom - I'm not the popo. But what I am highlighting here is that you're making money off scam advertising. Who benefits from the scam? Well, the scammer maybe, and the one that took the bribe / sold the advertisement space definitely. I personally don't want to make money off scammers; that's highly unethical.
So there is no force here. But maybe we can take some inspiration from a meme posted in another context: #1556688
I also warn you guys long time ago: #796213
If SN will not be promoted as "come to earn sats" these scammers will not dare such things. But the daily rewards act like free food for hungry monkeys:
assmilkers posting crap on SN to get daily rewards
I just came to zap your comment. Please do not zap it back.
First of all, I love the meme. At the same time, the "real bitcoiner" is now in the position of king and arbiter over the ignorant plebs. I see your point overall, but it places a pretty high moral (and technical) bar on the territory owner to police the territory and evaluate each post. As an example, I was gone for a few hours yesterday. I checked in and was shocked. I eventually read the post. If I was acting morally, I should donate the sats to the rewards pool? Fellow stackers will now share in my luck, but SN still gets a cut and benefits from the scam, no?
I see your point overall, but it places a pretty high moral (and technical) bar on the territory owner to police the territory and evaluate each post.
I think not each post. Just the boosts. Posts are organic, the zaps go to the poster. Boosts are bribes. It says: rank me higher, here's some sats. Literally an advertisement. As a territory owner, you're the most significant recipient of that ad spend.
I was gone for a few hours yesterday.
I was gone almost the whole day yesterday because I was exhausted. So I did it this morning after I got a string of boost and reward money sats. top is the evergreen spot and I think that that's the most important. If at any time someone wants to browse a content territory, especially for territories like yours that have guides and are there to inform people, the pinned post is great, but the next thing people will look for is the top posts. So I think that it would be great if that were clean.
If I was acting morally, I should donate the sats to the rewards pool?
I say downzap, unless you want a scam to be the top post on your territory. I already removed the lower ranked one again after k00b did it the first 2 times, because it was on my territory too, the current one isn't. So keep those sats, but earmark them when there's nothing to downzap?
Fellow stackers will now share in my luck, but SN still gets a cut and benefits from the scam, no?
Not to my knowledge? 100% of rewards go to stackers, not SN, afaik. So SN only gets the money from your territory rent, not from the boosts. k00b personally is one of the territory owners and he's fighting it. I'm helping that fight on my own territory (why would you post a shitcoiner thing on ~AI tho, lol) and since I earned a bunch of sats from rewards, I spent those into downzapping the post outside of my territory. That way, the part of k00bs sats that were used for downzapping and were delivered to me in the form of rewards, got 2x the use for the same amount of sats. Now that I put 60k sats into the reward pool this way this morning, I will earmark any reward payout from downzaps I may get tomorrow again for this purpose, if needed. As long as the scammer's post is at the top, we the stackers are actively promoting a scam. I take that personal.
I understand your point. I have to be honest. I'm not saying I have given it a lot of thought, but as it stands now I really loathe the concept of downzapping. It strikes me as antithetical to everything I believe in re freedom of expression. I am not wearing my lawyer hat when I say this. Do you see this as the only option for combatting scam ads on SN?
So the 3 options you have is:
- Moderation
- Downzapping
- Doing nothing
Moderation
The problem with moderation is that there is no real recourse, unless the moderator is benevolent and fair to everyone, which is impossible. Thus you'll always run into a final word from a moderator, the boss of the moderator, on Reddit, the admins, and so on. You know... the judge. All sounds great but it isn't because people are always biased.
Downzapping
The issue with downzapping is that whales rule. Generically that's the downside of money being the only moderator, and therefore this knife at least cuts both ways, because the other side that whales rule too is upzapping. So there could in theory be balance here, which is what this entire No-Trust-November experiment we're still in since December '25 is about. In practicing it I found the previous implementation that this replaces (where the up- and downzaps are counted by magnitude on a log scale) more fair, but it is not implementable without some form of trust/sybil-resistance, thus it is not possible to do it that way in the current implementation, because the only sybil resistance is 21M.
Doing nothing (no moderation, no downzapping)
The problem with doing nothing is that - although it's laissez-faire, and I like that - there would be no recourse against scammers at all. So whales still rule, but in absolutes: if there is only up, then those with most sats to waste will always be the most visible.
So to me, downzaps is not a great option, I don't really like it, BUT, it is the best option of these 3. If there is a better way to do this then we should discuss it.
The fact that this is downzaps battling boosts, means that this is an ad issue, not a freedom of speech issue:
Maybe we should have the discussion, but not the advertisement? The dude is literally bribing territory owners (and stackers through the 30% to rewards portion) to display the scam.
I'm all for not censoring the discussion, but I am 100% for censoring the ad, and 100% against anyone that takes the fucking bribe. We're all upset if Meta and YT make a shitton of money on election interference, but we as territory owners are free of blame when we get bribed? I say hell no. That knife cuts us too.