@dooowta AMA: Kickstarting bitcoin circular economies worldwide, onboarding businesses, empowering local economies through ₿commerce. \ stacker news ~bitcoin

@dooowta AMA: Kickstarting bitcoin circular economies worldwide, onboarding businesses, empowering local economies through ₿commerce.

37.4k sats \ 35 comments \ @michael 23 Mar 2022 bitcoin freebie

I'm Michael Atwood, co-founder CEO of Oshi. We introduce local businesses and consumers to bitcoin in an easy, practical way, while giving bitcoiners the tools to foster bitcoin economies in their community.

Let's get started!

-how to onboard businesses -why ₿commerce > Ecommerce -why legacy payment processors are fucked -the cashback scam -mistakes bitcoiners make when introducing bitcoin to businesses -bitcoin block parties -what we've learned -what the future of ecommerce looks like -why small businesses are left behind in the digital era

and anything else!

view all related items

73 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b 23 Mar 2022

Which businesses seem to get it the fastest? Do they have anything in common?
What's your elevator pitch for onboarding a business to Bitcoin?
What's something you believe about Bitcoin and it's future that few people agree with you on, including fellow bitcoiners?

1097 sats \ 2 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022 freebie

We've had a lot of success with smaller mom and pop shop type places. Medium-size businesses and bigger often have a lot more processes in place and bureaucracy. Adding something new into the mix can be difficult, unless they're already interested in bitcoin (you'd be surprised how many actually are interested/curious!)

Food trucks have been quick to understand. Frankly, I can't tell if that's just because they're quick, nimble, and willing to try new things, or if it's because their owners are generally the easiest to get ahold of - given the fact that often times they're actually working in the truck. Fast-casual type places are pretty open as well. I'm slowly branching out to entertainment venues/bars at this stage. They typically have higher margins and run specials (happy hour, buy one get one) more often already, so it's easier to get them to do some bitcoin rewards deals. Now that we have the Square integration, this helps a lot with onboarding businesses. It's already integrated into their workflow a bit more so the friction to onboard is a bit less.
In general, I hit them with the bitcoin rewards pitch asap. It seems to hit the hardest.

"Interested in rewarding your customers with free bitcoin when they shop at your business?"

Notice how I'm leading with 'want to accept bitcoin?' or 'want to escape inflation and the wrath of central bankers?' (lol). This is by design. Give these businesses something that will get asses in seats. More customers in the door. Maybe give them something to differentiate their business from the competition. From there, you have their ear. One step at a time. Don't overload them.

There's a pretty staunch segment of bitcoiners who believe that spending bitcoin is a scam. While I love the angle that 'everyone's a scammer' by Bitstein, I do think people should rethink the positive effects of using bitcoin locally and growing the bitcoin circular economy.

These days there are new tools in which you can participate in the bitcoin network without having to spend the asset. Strike, for example, allows you to effectively use the bitcoin network using dollars from your checking account. Sure, you're going to have to KYC, which I'm not a fan of either, but what's the alternative? Using Visa/Mastercard?

There are some who seem to make perfect the enemy of good as well. 'if we are using kyc'd btc, then it's a waste to even go down this path', etc. I strongly disagree with this as well. How did you get started with bitcoin? I was a noob who bought from an exchange, got into shitcoins, and had very little interest in privacy. Fast forward some years and that has dramatically changed. bitcoin changes people. Allow others to take the first steps into it much like the rest of us.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 23 Mar 2022

Thanks! It makes sense that the value to a business would be rewarding customers.

What does the future of e-commerce look like to you?

1042 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

The future of Ecommerce is going to be wild. ₿commerce > Ecommerce in a million different ways.

One thing that I can't get out of my head is the fact that 85% of retail commerce in the USA is done in-store with cash or with the swipe of a card.

85%! Just 15% is done online. Of that 15%, Amazon and other major retailers dominate that market. In emerging markets obviously it's far less as many don't have access to financial services to send or receive online payments.

So what's going on? Why can't small businesses get involved in Ecommerce in a meaningful way?

More expensive to sell online than it is to sell in-store.
More friction for the customer to pre-order when they may be walking into the store anyway.
Marketing efforts for small businesses are fragmented. Their own website, email blasts no one reads, competing for attention on Facebook and Instagram and social media networks as opposed to a local ecommerce marketplace.
Creating and managing an ecommerce site can be cumbersome and expensive.
Introduces more fraud into the mix due to chargeback risk.

Once businesses realize that ₿commerce is far superior to Ecommerce, and in-store commerce, things are going to get interesting.

Cheaper to sell online for the first time EVER, without any risk of chargebacks or fraud.

We've really gotten away from the days where the businesses had the power - in a good way. If someone paid in cash, it was up to the business whether they wanted to refund the angry customer. The businesses have a reputation to uphold and it is in their best interests to keep the customers happy. Today, a customer can simply call up the bank and charge back the purchase, whether due to a valid concern, mistake, or because they're shitty consumers.

We can create local ₿commerce marketplaces whereby incentives exist for consumers to pre-order or pre-pay for their local goods and services, saving the businesses money, while simultaneously rewarding the customer.
If the incentives are right, I believe local ₿commerce marketplaces will sprout up that better serve small businesses, aggregating local deals and promotions giving them visibility all in one place, without customers having to stumble upon them on a variety of different platforms unfit for small businesses. Sort of like an amazon marketplace, except for local SMB commerce.
Merchants around the world who have never had access to digital payments can now set up their online shop in minutes and begin promoting their business right away using tools like Oshi.

I'm seeing massive Ecommerce growth in emerging markets to the point where they actually leapfrog more developed nations in % retail ecommerce. This flips everything on its head. With that being said, it's not too early for business of the western world to benefit from it as well.

It's going to be beautiful.

110 sats \ 2 replies \ @the_bitcoin_bum 23 Mar 2022 freebie

Is it true that you weigh less than your significant other? Do you even gym bruh?

38 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

🤣 It's not true yet, but it's definitely a running joke.

Bitcoin/Oshi has run a number on me the past several months. Food and gym time has become a second thought but need to work on that haha.

Andreas Antonopoulos used to talk about how he lost 20lbs+ or whatever when diving into bitcoin. Me too, except I didn't have nearly as much to lose 😬

70 sats \ 0 replies \ @the_bitcoin_bum 23 Mar 2022

Love ya bro. Lol.

316 sats \ 1 reply \ @why 23 Mar 2022

Have you seen any “collective” dynamics spring up around lightning acceptance? ie a particular main street with several lightning-enabled vendors accepting bitcoin where it becomes part of the collective “branding” (in Austin maybe?) of the main street? Or maybe a a farmer’s market setting? Curious to hear about examples of locales where more than a single lone vendor is accepting btc, and how that affects the dynamic of the locale.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

Great question. Yes!

Often times the first couple of merchants are the hardest. You're asking them to take a leap of faith and try something new that no one else in their area is yet. Typically you'll need to find a business owner that is already interested in bitcoin (there are far more than people realize!).

Once you get a couple under your belt, especially if they're rather big names, one can start using their brand to approach other businesses. "X, Y, and Z are doing it, what do you think?"

In terms of a hyperlocalized collective, the bitcoin block party on Rainey Street in Austin definitely seemed to sprout up that way. Once a few vendors in a small area (in this case food trucks) hop on board, it becomes far easier to get the rest. Then we went to the bar across the street.

We want to take advantage of this more in the near future!

117 sats \ 1 reply \ @stacktothefuture 23 Mar 2022 freebie

ok, i'll bite. why exactly are legacy payment processors fucked?

114 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022 freebie

Because I believe the times we are living in where payment processers get a cut out of every single transaction that takes place, not just online, but even in-store locally, is an anomaly!

For thousands of years people have transacted, generally in a p2p, cash-like manner, but only in the past several decades, given the rise of the internet and ecommerce, has this dramatically changed.

So what does this mean?

For me, it means that our money was not ready for ecommerce quite yet because we didn't have a way to conduct DIGITAL p2p cash payments (bitcoin 😉) . Due to this, we had to rely on third parties to send and receive financial 1s and 0s over the internet, and were happy to pay them egregious fees to do so - because was there really any other efficient, frictionless mechanism to do this? Not really.

This is the bread and butter of legacy payment processors and middlemen.

Using lightning, anyone can now do this near-instant and near-free without the likes of payment processors. This is massive.

Furthermore, unbanked/underbanked people all over the world have access to this without needing permission from the legacy system. Massiveeee!

If lightning can do what visa/mastercard does more efficiently, more cost-effective, with instant settlement while simultaneously opening the doors for billions to participate in ₿commerce, why exactly are we letting legacy payment processors charge us to do it when lightning does it for NEAR-FREE?

That's why they're fucked. They either embrace it, or get left behind.

The game isnt about milking everyone for sending 1's and 0's over the internet. Now you actually have to provide a superior experience and VALUE to your users. The cool part is, companies embracing lightning can now arbitrage the fees visa, mastercard, and others charge to send the payment, and give so much more via lightning at no additional cost to the vendor.

this is huge.

77 sats \ 1 reply \ @bill 23 Mar 2022 freebie

I feel like I should already know this... but how does Oshi actually work?

28 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

We're recently updated our website (oshi.tech) which should explain things a lot better!

Basically, there are three types of people using the app (and one user can be all three)

Consumers - browse local deals and pay with any lightning-enabled bitcoin wallet. Each deal will have a discount/satsback attached to it. When you purchase the deal, you'll receive satsback and a voucher (sort of like a digital ticket) redeemable for whatever you purchased. For example, if you purchase a coffee, you'll pay via Oshi, earn the satsback, receive a voucher, and redeem that voucher for coffee at that specific business whenever you're ready!
Businesses - We get businesses set up to accept bitcoin payments in just minutes. They can choose from several LSPs (lightning service providers). Ibex, OpenNode, BTCPay, Bitcoin Beach Wallet, and more coming soon! They then choose what they'd like to promote. Instead of 30% off beer during happy hour, how about 30% satsback for customers paying with bitcoin? Instead of buy 10 coffees, get 1 free using a punch card, how about get each coffee at 5-10% satsback through Oshi? The business receive the bitcoin instantly into their LSP account, and Oshi currently takes a 2.5% platform fee (which includes payment processing)
Bitcoiners - If you share the app using your ref link with other consumers, you'll get 1% of every purchase they make in sats. Share the link with a business who onboards to Oshi, and you'll get 1% of every SALE they make. For early adopters, we're extending this commission FOREVER.

tldr; buy local goods and services, supporting your local economy, and earn bitcoin rewards. Share your ref link to stack some serious sats every time a business sells something, or every time your friends buy something.

60 sats \ 2 replies \ @Tristan 23 Mar 2022

What is the secret to your beard?

39 sats \ 1 reply \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

No secrets. It just grows haha. I won the lottery on that one, but for the longest time it was a curse. Good thing beards are 'in' because otherwise I'd be in trouble. I don't think I've been clean shaven in over a decade.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 23 Mar 2022

It just occurred to me I have no idea what your face actually looks like.

44 sats \ 2 replies \ @ThrillerX_ 23 Mar 2022

How hard was it to get the Bitcoiner Bar Shiners on board with Bitcoin?

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

I started reaching to them a couple months ago, but never really got in touch with the owners. Spent some time emailing them and trying to catch them in-person. Heard nothing back.

Eventually, I tried again, and this time the mood had changed. They were very responsive and eager to get started.

Business owners can be insanely busy. they have a million different people trying to sell them things, and they're dealing with staffing issues, increased costs (rent, labor, food, energy, etc) that really bog them down.

We stayed persistent and it paid off. Once they said yes, we had a 21% satsback on beer within Oshi, and got them set up with Ibex to accept bitcoin payments for anything on the menu. Took just a couple of days. Trained the staff (they're still learning so be gentle!) and got it up and running pretty quick.

tldr; it wasn't so hard, but persistence is key. dont give up!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ThrillerX_ 23 Mar 2022

Nice! Thanks for sharing that.

50 sats \ 3 replies \ @BitCoins 23 Mar 2022 freebie

With all the bitcoin cashback services out there (and the fact that Oshi is basically a cashback service) what makes you say that cashback is a scam?

38 sats \ 2 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

Great question!

We live in this crazy time where the legacy system and the bitcoin network are running in parallel. Today, with Oshi, someone can effectively pay with dollars over the lightning network (Strike) for goods and services and receive bitcoin 'cashback' (don't say that too fast or you'll wake up Roger Ver). This isn't scammy to me. You pay using dollars, and get bitcoin-back.

The scammy part is traditional cashback, whereby you're paying with dollars, and these debit/credit cards/rewards systems are basically just keeping your change under their 'INTRAnet of money', or walled-garden platform. For the longest time, if a business was offering 3% 'back', that would be called a discount. They would simply give you 3% of that item back in change. Today, they want you paying full price and locking in your rewards on their platform. Your change.

Furthermore, these businesses are passing down the payment processing fees (which are higher than the reward you're getting) to the customer. So when you earn these 'rewards' from your credit card company, you're really just having fun staying poor. The business is going to charge you an extra 3%+ to use your card, and the bank is giving you 1-2% 'cashback'. You're still losing 1%! Where it gets interesting is that if you use cash only, you're still paying the higher cost (unless they have a pay with cash discount) as if you were swiping your card, but getting 0 rewards back.

202 sats \ 1 reply \ @BitCoins 23 Mar 2022 freebie

🤯 ahh ok i see now.

i'm just gonna say it tho. you're basically the roger ver of a new era lol

bitcoin moses 🤣

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022

haha i've definitely thought about this. Roger was out there hustlin' trying to get business on a bitcoin standard - he was just really really early. It was unfortunate how his belief and use-case for bitcoin at that time really blinded him.

I also think the narrative he was driving was destroyed a bit right along with his reputation.

With lightning, it's definitely the right time to pick that torch up and start championing for small businesses to accept bitcoin once again, with all sorts of new use-cases and features that Roger could have only dreamed of at the time.

25 sats \ 1 reply \ @jon 23 Mar 2022 freebie

I heard about the Austin bitcoin block party but couldn't make it. How did it work, how many people showed up, and will you be doing more of them in the future?

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022 freebie

Bummer you couldn't make it! Fortunately we're working with meetup groups across the country to get more of them going.

We estimate around 600 people showed up. About 2.5M sats were given as rewards to the 400+ unique users who made at least 1 purchase that evening.

Prior to the block party, I went around and spoke with a variety of businesses in the area of Rainey Street we wanted to have the party. Within a couple of weeks we had verbal commitments from them to participate in the block party, accepting bitcoin, and offering bitcoin reward to their customers.

At this block party, the vendors were giving 50% satsback when you paid using bitcoin through the Oshi app. The vendors received the bitcoin, with most of them choosing to hold it.

We're looking to have another block party in Miami, Phoenix, Charlotte, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Huntsville, Kansas City, and more! Very excited about introducing bitcoin to communities in this way.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 24 Mar 2022

Thanks for the questions, everyone!

Feel free to shoot me a DM on twitter @dooowta, or reach out to @oshiapp with any other questions.

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @Cypher 23 Mar 2022 freebie

Does Oshi require any KYC for users? Businesses?

I’ve tried to get business near me to accept Bitcoin. Making a little headway but it’s harder than I thought. What services/wallets do you recommend for them?

They ask about taxes a lot. How is that handled?

I’m also probably one of the only people in my town that would pay with bitcoin afaik. How do you think everyday people will start using bitcoin and not just me lol

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 24 Mar 2022

We only require an email address for consumers, but will soon allow for anon accounts.

Businesses onboard with an LSP (lightning service provider) of their choice and those service providers generally require KYB. Oshi does not ask for any sensitive business information.

There's a lot of nuance when it comes to which LSP is better fit for vendors. If a business wants dollar convertibility, then OpenNode is likely the best since they charge a 1% flat rate whether you receive bitcoin-only or want to convert a portion of that to dollars.

For bitcoin-only, for businesses without any technical expertise, I recommend Ibex as their fees are cheaper than OpenNode for bitcoin-only but more expensive for dollar convertibility. Ibex really gives additional incentive (in the form of lower fees) for receiving and holding the bitcoin 👍

If they're looking for a POS-like solution, Ibex really shines here with IbexPay. We try to get businesses set up with both Oshi and a POS solution if they're ready for that.

For businesses in El Salvador, we recommend Bitcoin Beach Wallet. It's so easy to get set up. All they need to do is paste their bitcoin beach wallet username to connect with Oshi.

More technical/self-sovereign businesses (very rare) can connect their BTCPay server to Oshi using their Invoice API key.

I don't recommend the business owner simply using a phone wallet because that would generally require the owner to be present when the transaction is taking place. LNURL and static invoices are nice, but not all wallets support it at this time. Will definitely be exploring LNURL more, but at this time I prefer bolt 11.

Taxes really aren't all that different for a business. If they receive a payment in bitcoin, the value of that product or service (in dollars) at the time of sale is reportable as income just like any other business transaction. The only caveat is that if they choose to trade the bitcoin for dollars or use it for business expenses, there would be a taxable implication on the capital gain/loss. Most businesses choose to hold the bitcoin and 'roll the dice' so to speak. What's a few coffees, beers, or burgers sold each week for bitcoin? In the grand scheme of things, that's a very small amount of their total sales and an asymmetric tradeoff to bring in more business (with a massive upside potential).

Paying with bitcoin is getting easier and easier. There's still quite a bit of friction in getting a lightning-enabled wallet, but we believe the satsback incentives and the local commerce experience will be enough at this stage for people to get started. As more and more payment providers like Strike, CashApp, and others make it super easy to send a lightning txn, Oshi will be well positioned to accelerate this trend by providing the best local deals all on the same platform. Shop local, earn free bitcoin. I'm not sure many people will be able to turn that down as it becomes easier.

248 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 23 Mar 2022

Why not expand Oshi to worldwide coverage? Why always have to be US? Us is biased by "Bitcoin is an asset" thing... not just simply money
Small merchants are the ones that will raise the Bitcoin adoption. Do you think normal bitcoiners have to promote more BTC to "nocoiner shops" or we need a massive education for merchants?
Do you recommend to Oshi merchants to sell their earned BTC?
Are we winning the war against banksters?

146 sats \ 2 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022 freebie

Great questions. Great points.

We are taking baby steps at this point, but looking to make a splash in other markets across the world. In particular, Latin America and Africa. We have integrations with OpenNode, Ibex, Bitcoin Beach Wallet (galoy), BTCPay, and more in the pipeline, so merchants using any of those services, anywhere in the world, can plug their business into Oshi and promote their products and services to local (and global) shoppers.

We definitely approach bitcoin as more of a network instead of just an asset, and you're right, that's far difficult to convey to businesses who already have visa/mastercard networks and are ignorant as to why bitcoin is far superior.

Grassroots up is the best way! Yes! Bitcoiners are so passionate. I know from personal experience. We wanted to give them a tool to convey why using the bitcoin NETWORK is good for local businesses and consumers. We don't need to talk about inflation, central banking, privacy, chargebacks, processing fees, etc in order to show this. We can start with very simple incentives. 'market and promote your business to local shoppers, giving them bitcoin rewards/discounts when they shop and support local businesses.'
It's difficult for me to make recommendations to them. Obviously I think they should hold it. Generally, they do - simply because they understand (and i set expectations) that they are not going to see massive volumes (at least not yet) of bitcoin flowing into their business. So what if they sell a few coffees a week for bitcoin? 'are you comfortable holding $12 of bitcoin per week?'

Generally, they understand that and are more than willing to get started and hold onto the bitcoin at least until volumes pick up. They have bills to pay!

I think there are so many narratives building right now that greatly benefit this bitcoin movement. Localism. Privacy. Main Street, not Wall Street, Anti CBDC, etc.

The money is fixed. Now it's up to us to do what we can to fix the world. Try new things. Experiment. Start the conversation. It has to happen from the bottom, up, in my opinion.

96 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 23 Mar 2022

21 sats
42 sats
10 sats - push hard to them to pay employees in BTC and start the Bitcoin circular economy.
10 sats - be more optimistic... Bitcoin always win !

Total tips: 83 sats You deserve them!

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 23 Mar 2022 freebie

Bitcoin wins, yes! :)

thanks!

102 sats \ 1 reply \ @premitive1 26 Mar 2022 freebie

-mistakes bitcoiners make when introducing bitcoin to businesses

what are they?

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @michael OP 17 Apr 2022

Generally, bitcoiners try to orange-pill them. People think they have to sell businesses on the wonders of bitcoin in order to get them to accept it. Not true.

Businesses are busy. They have staffing issues and have very little time to entertain theory about how bitcoin is going to take over the world - of course it will, but generally they don't have time for that at the moment.

Their costs are going up. Food, materials, energy, labor, rent, etc - ALL GOING UP! They have a lot to think about.

I approach it as how the bitcoin network can help their business. Maybe it can bring them customers they wouldn't otherwise have. Maybe they can save 1-2% in processing fees, perhaps more, which could dramatically improve their margins. Maybe they can offer bitcoin rewards as an incentive or promote their business using Bcommerce.

Sometimes we need to approach these businesses not with the ideology, but with simple, practical things they can do today to get their bitcoin journey started.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @earnbitcoin 6 Apr 2022

LOL!!!

📺 Visa / MC Rekt #bitcoin | @Dooowta #18526