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Everyone has one or two unpopular opinions that all their peers disagree with, and most people resist discussing them to avoid disagreements. But a second-order effect of bottling up all your unpopular opinions is that discussions among your peers can become echo chambers with strong social pressure to conform to a set of established thinking on a topic.
To encourage healthy debate and to introduce SN users to new ideas, we thought it would be fun to open the floor for you all to share your most unpopular opinions about Bitcoin, Nostr, or any other topic you're passionate about.
Let it rip!
Not crazy unpopular, but unpopular with some people so I'm gonna say it.
Bitcoin is not salvation, a deity, the most moral cause in the world, etc. I feel like so many people, especially on Bitcoin twitter have inadvertently made Bitcoin an almost cult-like group, which although supporting a good technology and cause, creates a dangerous atmosphere around BTC that drives people away instead of bringing them in.
I came to Bitcoin in spite of all the slogans of "Bitcoin or slavery", ∞/21M, etc. Although they are in the distinct minority, I have heard several prominant Bitcoiners refer to Bitcoin as a new world relgion that will overtake all "impure" ideologies. I almost didn't start using Bitcoin because insanity like this made me less sure about it's actual usefulness.
Most Bitcoiners I've talked to seem to see Bitcoin in a reasonable light, where it is a technology and movement that can help the world in political and economic ways. Yet, too many people seem to almost worship Bitcoin like a god, rather than a protocol. Bitcoin is not God.
Bitcoin will not save you, and being pro-Bitcoin does not make you in any way more moral than a regular person who uses fiat, or even most bankers at that. This is not a jihad, it is a political movement. God has said that idol worship is a sin, and that He looks on the heart rather than the exterior. He will care about how you have lived and treated your brothers and sisters. I don't think He will care if you supported Bitcoin or not, but He will if you used it as an idol upon which you could belittle your brothers and sisters.
We shouldn't level judgement at people who choose to worship Bitcoin, yet a warning is in order. If you care about being a good person, about actually helping the cause of Bitcoin, and about your eternal salvation, please don't make Bitcoin a deity.
I'm not here to fight you guys. I'm just trying to warn and love.
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I’m miffed that this may be considered an unpopular opinion. Totally agree with you.
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I agree.
Bitcoin is a better monetary system. And thats all it is.
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I agree some can get carried away and see Bitcoin as a panacea. There are some positive effects of learning about Bitcoin and some negative. Good on you for calling out some negatives.
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Thanks. I love learning about Bitcoin, it's probably one of the most fruitful intellectual pursuits out there. Just want to help people not get carried away
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"Bitcoin is not the most moral cause in the world"
WRONG, you arrogant prick. You couldn't make it two words into "stay humble and stacking sats" before fucking it up and coming up with your own "superior" moral concern.
You fail yo understand why money matters, have weak hands, and "your" coins will be easily seized by a violent government.
I did not bother reading the rest of your long-winded nonsense after you revealed yourself to be an arrogant fool.
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If gold had always been bitcoin, and we never went to fiat, no one would see money as a moral cause, and we would not live in a utopia.
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🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Your comment does not even dignify engagement, like the statements made by shitcoiners.
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Your comment has me wondering. Do you believe morality is subjective or objective?
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Reality is globally objective, locally subjective.
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That's an interesting take on reality itself, but I was asking about morality specifically.
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Yes. The cult is boring and, like all fundamentalists, very, very noisy.
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No, LARPers like you who don't understand Bitcoin are very tiring and noisy. You are as insignificant to the world as the average fiat holder. You are oblivious as to just how much you reveal about yourself.
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You are 100% right. I pray for your forgiveness at the altar of satoshi.
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Eat a dick, you degenerate capitulatory unambitious low-T soy-slurping fiat cuck
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Hell yeah!
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Why don’t you post some proof of anyone saying “I have heard several prominant Bitcoiners refer to Bitcoin as a new world relgion that will overtake all "impure" ideologies.”???
This “Bitcoin cult” concept is another bullshit attack from Eth bros just like they attempted and failed with “maxi”
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The point of Bitcoin is to have separation from governments, Hence decentralization.
I don't know whom you're meeting that's making Bitcoin into a deity. Unfortunately, I don't use X, so I can't say. I use Nostr and there is lots of Bitcoin lover on there, but I don't think I've met many deity worshipers like you. It's more in lines with "Fix the money, fix the world," type, so I think they just want a better monetary policy than fiat.
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Agreed. Bitcoin is a superior monetary system. It creates better incentives than the current system does, and that may nudge you in the direction of being a better person, but it's certainly not a deity.
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1139 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 11 Jun 2023
If you don't understand the code, you don't really understand bitcoin
I feel like too many people are all about "don't trust, verify" etc. but never really tried to learn how to read code.
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I agree. But this is true of many things. You don't understand cars until you've taken an engine apart and rebuilt a broken transmission. Systems need to be designed so that they suit even those who are not technically proficient. This is why I think self-custody is appropriate for a minority.
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Shitcoins will never go away. They will always be a poor investment and will lose out to Bitcoin in the long term, but they will be around.
Creating a shitcoin is very profitable (for the issuer) and the cost of producing them is essentially zero. Anyone who maintains a strong network effect has the power to issue a shitcoin that will succeed in the near- to mid-term. Apple, Twitter, FB, anyone who produces a popular video game, etc.
Whatever activity can be done profitably will be done. If no one has said that before, let's call it Mudblood's Law.
None of this is meant as a justification, just a prediction.
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Agreed. And if US exchanges are forced to de-list securities, then I can also see a lot more of this being built on top of Bitcoin. NFTs and rudimentary BRC-20 coins are already here, so who knows what'll be cooked up in the next few years.
I don't think anyone here is mentally prepared for the sheer degeneracy we'll see on Bitcoin during the next bull cycle lmao.
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Increase the blocksize limit…
I won.
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Well, you're technically correct, this is unpopular. I take it it's just a troll answer.
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In case of 4 years long network difficulty (i.e. security) regression - halving should be delayed by 210k blocks to meet the recovery of the network security. That would de facto implement a missing free market in post-subsidy era between overtaxed active on-chain users and passive free-riders aka stakeholders. Without free market there - we are f...ed long term :)
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This is what I came here for. The thing is difficulty could go down for reasons other than lower security relative to the rest of human endeavor. Fundamentally this gets at how a system can know anything outside its own boundaries.
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Fundamentally this gets at how a system can know anything outside its own boundaries.
This. :)
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Hmmm, that's an interesting idea
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In a post-subsidy era, delaying the halving by another 4 year period would not do anything because there already is no subsidy. Am I missing something?
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Such a long-term regression of network difficulty means nothing else that transaction revenue from active users is not able to fund current network security anymore for both: active and passive users. Delaying of halving is simply: not introducing additional more damage to the network security. as a side note: it's really a conservative approach then - and would fit to Bitcoin, in fact.
And obviously we are approaching post-subsidy era gradual way, so this so simple mechanism above will trigger in the moment of passing equilibrium described above. And effectively we will stay in this equilibrium, having simultaneously:
  • as low on-chain fees as possible
  • as low subsidy as possible
...while keeping the network security robust and all that balanced by the free market (in its finest) between these two competing parties.
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So many so called “bitcoiners” are LARPers, especially many who are prominent on bitcoin Twitter with large followings. They say they are all for freedom and privacy; meanwhile they endorse and take sponsorship from KYC exchanges and custodial lending platforms. I see all KYC coins as government captured coins, and any custodial platform is a “rug you anytime” platform.
And then there are those who keep saying bitcoin will eventually win, for certain. As if we can just kick our feet up, sit back, and watch bitcoin win. That is far from true. Satoshi gave us the gift of bitcoin and it is up to us to not fuck it up. We need to take care of it, build on top of it, make sure it’s still usable when hundred millions or billions of people want to use it. Thinking that we have already won / will eventually win while growing complacent is the last thing that will help us win. In fact, it might be the very thing that cause bitcoin to fail.
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KYC trail on the blockchain only opens a user to potential government harassment. It does not change or affect anything else after the coins are on private keys.
It takes a critical mass of people willing to face authority and tell them NO, before things will change. I'm not discouraging P2P at all. But if all we do is run and hide in fear, then Liberty will lose.
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I disagree. Handing one’s identity to centralized platforms that can be hacked, stolen from, or forcefully captured, and at the same time, linking all bitcoin obtained from these platforms to one’s identity changes everything. As very well said by Matt Odell:
It is not running or hiding in fear to want privacy in life. It is simply the choice and the ability to selectively reveal yourself to others. It is freedom.
I stand by what I said and would like to add that KYC = Keeping Yourself Cucked.
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I suspect plenty of Chinese people avoid censorship and totalitarianism. But that remnant has not influenced or changed the policies of the government which now abuses them.
I am not willing to accept the loss of liberty in the United States and if somehow it becomes illegal to own or trade KYC Bitcoin then we will have another 80 years of tyranny.
Again, I agree everyone should have a free and private stack- but accepting government restrictions over your actual irl identity and ownership of Bitcoin will be a massive loss for liberty.
Winning the race to avoid the war means having a significant amount of upstanding and public people unafraid to hold all kinds of Bitcoin KYC and otherwise.
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I met this one man, he's married but he always has cash. I asked him, why? He said, "My wife checks the financial statements all the time, I want privacy." for stuff I spend MY money on that she may disagree on.
You are only right in your first paragraph.
Everyone you know and love dying before hyperbitcoinization is not Bitcoin's failure, but would be that of our epoch. Bitcoin will survive regardless of its price or usage.
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I understand that this is a long game and that we are very early in the adoption phase. In fact, I don’t think hyperbitcoinization will happen during my lifetime. The existing power establishment will fight us and throw everything at us in an attempt to kill bitcoin. I still think bitcoin will likely come out on top in the end.
But I don’t believe in absolutes and guarantees. I believe the survival of bitcoin relies on its adopters / users. If the majority of bitcoin adopters grow complacent, it will not help bitcoin win. Saying bitcoin will win while ignoring privacy and self sovereignty will not help bitcoin succeed.
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The “∞/21 million” idea is probably off by an order of magnitude.
i think ∞/210 million is a more accurate estimate of bitcoin’s market value on a Bitcoin standard.
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I don't understand, are you talking about fractional reserves?
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i’m thinking about the role money plays in an economy.
whether on a fiat standard or a gold standard, the value of all dollars or gold bars in the world has always been a tiny fraction of the world’s wealth, and i think that will continue on a bitcoin standard.
the 10% estimate isn’t a precise measure, it’s just meant to illustrate that i think anyone who tries dividing all the world’s wealth by 21 million to back into a future bitcoin price will be way, way off.
after all, if the price of bitcoin equaled all the world’s wealth divided by 21 million, assuming there are 21 million bitcoin, it would mean every single thing on planet earth (except bitcoin) was worth exactly nothing.
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Oh yes I totally agree.
I wonder if there are historical (maybe 1800s) stats for:
Market Cap of Gold / Market Cap of All Assets
I assume this ratio would be similar in a Bitcoin world
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Yes, I think I've seen you argue this recently on another post. If not you then someone else. The idea that all value will be stored in bitcoin is absurd.
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Fearing KYC is FUD.
Someone will finally have to tell the gov to f off, bending over backwards as a new user to only hold p2p coins doesn't help win the race to avoid the war.
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It really is FUD. Stealing bitcoin is much harder than even some bitcoiners make it out to be. Bitcoin's public ledger is something that the Monero community has been using as a cudgel against bitcoiners for a while and more I've read their musings about privacy, the less convinced they seem to be about fiat becoming obsolete. A lot of the fervor around privacy stems from dodging the stifling KYC/AMLs in place, and on some level it assumes that they'll be around forever. Bitcoin replaces those arbitrary levies and checkpoints, and unlocking this efficiency eats fiat's lunch. If the government wants bitcoin, they have to mine it themselves, like Satoshi did. The mere act of holding Bitcoin is telling the government to fuck off. People ought to commit to the bit
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I got another one, Bitcoin is not 100% trustless
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Agreed. I prefer "trust minimised", although I get how that doesn't roll off the tongue as nicely.
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20 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 12 Jun 2023
Why not?
Not saying I disagree, just want to hear your arguments. Also not saying I agree, haha
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Unless you reviewed all the code yourself your are trusting the devs. You also are trusting the devs that they are maintaining the software without bugs. You trust the security from the miners that they don’t “ally “ and start excluding transactions based on government requests. Killing one of the main feature of the network (being permissionless). You also trust the “network effect “ to keep growing and don’t start a downtrend that left your savings on 0. Those 4 examples are the biggest but I’m pretty sure there are more trust involved.
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Well a lot of systems dont work without trust. As in, they wont let you see the codebase even if you wanted. With bitcoin, you at least theoretically could check. But I agree you make a good point, theres definitely some trust involved.
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296 sats \ 1 reply \ @om 12 Jun 2023
I'm pissed when Bitcoiners say that Bitcoin is backed by energy. No it's not! Unless you can get it back somehow. If BTC would be backed by electricity, then LTC, DOGE, XMR etc. would also be. And are they?
Bitcoin isn't backed by any physical asset. Energy is needed for it but it's not backing it.
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100 years ago "Henry Ford suggested a currency backed in kilowatt hours (kWh) and this is exactly what was found for Bitcoin in Bitcoin’s Energy-Value Equivalence - Bitcoin is “backed” by energy input."
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Holding bitcoin never made me feel self sovereign. And running a node does not either.
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Money is a perception of value, without any entity. Concrete performance is a kind of IOU. Asking people to believe that you can store value in some kind of entity or encrypted text is inherently religious.
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Bitcoin proper may never achieve mass adoption because most humans are not sufficiently independent thinkers 🐑.
Once bitcoin reaches a certain saturation point in the general population, there will be too many nodes run by follower-thinkers. Eventually they will do something dumb like increase the supply, change the blocksize or some similar step that increases centralization.
Of course those of us who disagree will not update our nodes as such. But most of the population will unthinkingly follow along.
Although a good number of us will fork to "true" bitcoin. But we would be a much smaller percentage of what was once bitcoin.
So we'd again be the smaller band of rabble-rousers, rebels, punks, etc. While the rest of the mindless population continues re-creating fiat or reserve banking on what was once bitcoin.
They'll fail again, and the endless cycle begins again. Endless because most people don't learn.
Just a thought
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Gold worked, but not everyone tried to accumulate gold. But also gold does seem to be faltering lately to be fair
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Interesting point.
But I think the "mindless population" just doesn't care. They'll use whatever works, oblivious to how it works or what even could be "improved" (but making it worse).
So they also wouldn't start with their own forks imo. At least none with a lot of support. I mean, will they even know what a fork is?
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159 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 12 Jun 2023
I think "eating bugs" is not that bad...
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Everything with ketchup tastes like ketchup...
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Imo the term Bitcoin will be abstracted away. First and foremost due to Bits and Sats but also because the way it actually becomes money imo is by having currencies built ON TOP OF IT with different names and redeemable for varying amounts and which most people will probably never do.
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106 sats \ 0 replies \ @3 12 Jun 2023
Intentionally saying the phrase "hodl" alienates a lot of potential bitcoiners and makes it so a lot of people cant take us seriously. Somehow it also makes us seem cultish, like a weird chant we have. Also, saying hodl stands for 'hold on for dear life' is also weird, because originally that wasn't what it was, it was simply a misspelling of the word hold. Its not the end of the world, I know, but this is my unpopular opinion.
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Coriander/Cilantro should be an explicit opt-in at restaurants/food trucks/etc
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Recursive covenants will allow governments to control Bitcoin while at the same time keeping it decentralized and thereby not killing off a trillion dollar asset class.
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this was one of my favorite hot takes on SN, i am now convinced every bitcoiner should own a bike
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A bike is the ultimate form of decentralization as far as transportation goes. Cars used to be but they've just become computers on wheels.
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Right, we need something like an open source car. At least on an android phone we can flash a custom ROM. That should be possible for cars as well.
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Most bitcoiners suck and bitcoin fixing things will really kick into high gear after a few rounds of all your idiotic malinvestment running their course (likely multigenerational), meaning hyperbitcoinization as a point event will not necessarily be all that significant.
Bitcoiners having the opportunity to become poorer is sort of the fundamental reason why bitcoin will fix things.
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You already have enough bitcoin
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What do you mean?
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If bitcoin appreciates like I suspect it will, given how early we are, plebs have likely already amassed generational wealth.
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But how much do you think is generational wealth? 0.1? 1? 10 btc?
I see that very few bitcoiners agree with my strong meme...
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One does not simply become self sovereign
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It's good that shitcoins exist.
Particularly those that think themselves to be "better Bitcoin" are really just a breeding ground of ideas and technologies. Those worth preserving get implemented into Bitcoin or coopted by the ecosystem in some way.
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We shouldn't use the term satoshi or sat to describe the smallest unit of bitcoin. Hear me out.
The dollars smallest unit is called a penny. And then we have nickels and dimes and quarters. Pesos smallest unit is called centavos.
My point is it is unusual to name the smallest unit of a currency after a person. Or any denomination of currency
Now the problem really is that the name of a person actually I think diminishes bitcoins grandeur: Calling it a satoshi somehow, as an introduction, to an outsider, makes them think bitcoin is this Japanese focused idea. When in reality its global and no one knows where its from. And sure me and you know satoshi Nakamoto could easily be a pseudonym, but the average person is learning all this for the first time and coming to their own conclusions based on what theyre hearing and seeing. Normally, im here, in a bitcoin focused area, and everyone understand me, and I have no issue calling it a satoshi. But these thoughts occur to me when im talking to my 70 year old mother and father about bitcoin, or a random stranger who's not that great with tech, and I hesitate to explain that theyre called satoshi it just seems also to unnecessarily complicate it. I think things should be named more intentionally, like quarter or dime, because those names describe the actual thing itself.
I think the smallest unit should be referred to as "bits"
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