Let's hear your controversial Bitcoin take. I'll go first: \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Let's hear your controversial Bitcoin take. I'll go first:

2301 sats \ 170 comments \ @birdeye21 30 Jun 2023 bitcoin

There are just as many morally bankrupt grifters in Bitcoin as there are in crypto.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D4cmHlIHYX4/hqdefault.jpg

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1062 sats \ 7 replies \ @juanito 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin doesn't fix everything.

231 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin doesn't fix everything just like fiat can't be blamed for everything. Its about incentives. Money as a base layer in a society if set up with fiat incentives encourages so many bad outcomes. "Bitcoin fixes this" is a broad meme to communicate this. Bitcoin doesn't fix you, but it might make you think differently. Longer term for example. This would be true if we had another form of hard money.

120 sats \ 0 replies \ @_stacktoshi 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin doesn't fix anything.

(it's just a set of tools, so it's up to us to do the actual work)

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 1 Jul 2023

👏👏👏

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

That's not a controversial take, that's just retarded AND NAIVELY ARROGANT!!!

You are no different from the prognosticators smugly declaring bitcoin will collapse. Literally exactly the same and it's ironic how oblivious you are to your similarity to a nocoiner. 🤡🤡🤡

70 sats \ 2 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 1 Jul 2023

Are you the toxic version of Darth?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @rijndael 3 Jul 2023

darth is the toxic version of darth

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

that's possible? and probably.

903 sats \ 1 reply \ @orthwyrm 30 Jun 2023

Economic doomers are boring to listen to.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Jun 2023

ngl peter schiff can be entertaining

464 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

Most "bitcoiners" do not understand it and never will.

One of many reasons I believe it will succeed is that people don't have to understand it to use it and put trust in it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

so like the dollar, people don't need to understand it, they just need to use it

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Jun 2023

it's going to be one of those technologies that no one really talks about because of how fundamental it is to their lives, like the internet, or shoes.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

Exactly. Electricity. Mining will be like a utility. No one cares, no one is interested in how it works.

313 sats \ 6 replies \ @CoSatoshi 30 Jun 2023

Agreed!

My unpopular take: the US government NOT will somehow be magically be 'incentivized' to play along with Bitcoin instead of attack it; this is wishful pie-in-sky thinking. They have every corrupt-incentive to attack it and end it despite any perceived 'costs.' They serve their masters and will do anything... and I mean ANYTHING to protect the hegemony of the USD.

13 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

I don't disagree that the state serves its masters but what if its masters become owners of bitcoin? The US will do anything to protect the dollar's dominance until this becomes impossible. We often have a very short view of history. All empires fail. The US empire will as well. The question is what will replace it. The dollar will fail. What will replace it. It is inevitable that the status quo will not remain static. It is just a question of how many years, decades or centuries at most.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @CoSatoshi 30 Jun 2023

I'm with you that Bitcoin will win, ultimately over a long enough timeline. I just don't agree with the claim that the US gov. won't attack it because they're somehow 'incentivized' not to do so. That, specifically, is what I believe is false. Agree with you fully otherwise.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

The next few years are gonna be where either see an attack or don't see one. I think the likelihood of direct attack gets smaller every day. They appear to be attacking indirectly already and I suspect this will continue for the foreseeable future.

One huge advantage we have is that the state is full of individuals that have their own agendas. The state is not a well oiled machine. It is powerful but it is not a singular all powerful force.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @CoSatoshi 30 Jun 2023

That is a good point. However, I don't believe those are the ones Bitcoin needs to be worried about. I'm thinking more in lines with the CIA, NSA, and other intelligence agencies and dark/shadow organizations that have a sordid past at the behest of the rich elites.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

Yeah, valid. But I'm actually referring to those agencies as well. Historically they compete, have differing goals, and often fight each other. Same goes for the elites. The transition is not gonna be fun for sure. To me, bitcoin is more like a life raft. I truly believe it is beyond the point of being stoppable. Now, bitcoiners can be stopped, for now at least.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @CoSatoshi 30 Jun 2023

Agreed; it's beyond stoppable unless the gov. goes full China on our asses.

470 sats \ 2 replies \ @orthzar 30 Jun 2023

All Bitcoin companies that provide Bitcoin-specific services should shutdown immediately. Because the majority of them are going to fail hard during the upcoming depression, and their failures will cause two problems:

A lot of the Bitcoin held by those companies will be lost for one reason or another.
Newspapers will use those failed companies as evidence that Bitcoin is bad/broken (which is obviously not true).

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

There you go. That's actually a good controversial take. Especially Lightning medium of exchange ones are retarded niches like games or something that doesn't actually need Bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

it's also an issue of value creation versus capture. In a free market business creates value, and therefore the more business done the more value in society. In our fiat world with our fiat mindsets, many bitcoin businesses do not create value, they capture value. They are desperately clawing at a finite amount of bitcoin, but their business is not increasing the underlying value of bitcoin. I remain bearish on "bitcoin" companies.

277 sats \ 6 replies \ @shyfire 30 Jun 2023

Fiat price doesn't matter.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

it matters a lot, actually. FIAT price is holding bitcoin back.

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @shyfire 2 Jul 2023

1 btc = 1 btc

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

exactly. That we get distracted with 1 btc = $x, is a big problem.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Jun 2023

I'd argue it matters only in the sense that it's an essential orange pilling tool for normies. You have to build that connection between BTC and fiat for a newcomer to understand.

In terms of measuring bitcoin's "health", irrelevant.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @shyfire 2 Jul 2023

Hmm. I actually think NGU is one of the worst possible orange pilling vectors.

It's also one of the best.

Unfortunately it's not very reliable as the price varies so much.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

NGO is a cheap, unsustainable OPV, and leads people to shitcoinery.

340 sats \ 24 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

I also think bitcoin will be made illegal in more and more countries. You cant buy politicians. Prepare accordingly. Privacy and second passport is essential. Guns wont help

321 sats \ 2 replies \ @netstatic 30 Jun 2023

"You cant buy politicians" lol

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Jun 2023

yeah, short term, but bitcoin will probably do away with politicians to a large degree over time

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Not in our lifetimes at least. Combined power of bitcoiners willing to give btc to politicians is less than power of Fed.

Fed ofers more than trillions, they offer control. Bitcoiners offer the opposite.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SovranSystems 30 Jun 2023

Gun are the final resort to a government that continues to steal from it's population. We need to stop participating in government and if they continue to threatening with violence and then use deadly violence against to get us to participate with them, then we have every right to use force to stop them from perpetuation that violence. Thus, guns will be the solution to that specific situation. So, yes, guns will help!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

I prefer to sit in jail with 12 words in my head, repeating them daily until I get out over a figherfight with army which I wont win. Dont count on me

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @021da48107 30 Jun 2023

Making Bitcoin illegal is just a loaded phrase. What does it mean to make Bitcoin illegal?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

"Its hereby prohibited to own any cryptocurrency without registering with the State"

something like that. Governments love KYCd Bitcoin, but they hate "anonymous" Bitcoin.

0 sats \ 16 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

I agree with your statement bitcoin will be made illegal in more countries. They will fight it for sure but did you really say you can't buy politicians? Seriously. How do you think democracy works? Do you think they work for the people or the wealthy elites?

0 sats \ 15 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Control over money printer is always better deal than anything bitcoiners can offer. Most bitcoiners can offer is a bit more tax revenue (from companies only, individuals wont pay). Thats why.

I think its reposibility of every bitcoiner to ask themselves what are they gonna do if facing jailtime.

They cant torture as all, yes, but they can jail a looooot of us, which is torture at scale.

100 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

I don't doubt the evil of the state. I doubt the ability to print forever without complete collapse of their wealth as well. The more politicians and wealthy elites that own bitcoin the better protected we are from the result you suggest. I agree it is possible and it should be in our calculus for sure.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

And you bet ya, they will criminalize P2P exchange. Thats big no no. Only way to do that is to have network of agent informers. Doesnt scale, but they can get many people and make exmple of them.

7 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

With all you have said you sound pretty bleak but in the end they will lose. If you don't believe that then why are you even here?

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

I WILL DIE ON THIS HILL BROTHER :)

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

They will make anonymous holding illegal. Politicians love to break their own laws. THey will put people to prison while they happily hold "anonymous" bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

Yep. This is possible for sure.

10 sats \ 7 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

Fiat already genocided my people. They took out about a third of us. No one said it was going to be an easy transition.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 1 Jul 2023

I'm not aware of any people being genocided by fiat...

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 1 Jul 2023

It's called Weimar Germany hyperinflation and WWII... what do you think was used to pay the companies laying oven bricks and synthesizing lethal chemicals??

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @mudbloodvonfrei 2 Jul 2023

Dude people couldn't buy bread with their hyperinflated currency, much less gas chambers.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 2 Jul 2023

Dude... how do you think they paid for the war? Fiat and it all came crumbling down because of it.

reply on another page

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 1 Jul 2023

I think what they are saying is the established history of fiat currencies being used to fund ever larger and longer wars. Fiat does indeed make war far more possible by nation states. In a hard money world nations would need to rely on taxes and taxes are more clearly evident to populations as a cost vs money supply increases.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @mudbloodvonfrei 1 Jul 2023

Yeah I definitely agree with that analysis - it's much easier to finance a war by printing money.

I assumed (from the "about a third of us" bit) that he was referring to runaway inflation under the Weimar Republic leading to the rise of Hitler (who murdered ~1/3 of world Jewry). There are pictures from that era of Germans taking a wheelbarrow of cash to buy a loaf of bread. However, the runaway printing of currency was a symptom of the extortionate reparations the Brits and French forced the Germans to agree to, thus blaming fiat for genocide is questionable.

Now, fiat would be a good explanation for why WWI dragged on for so long, but I don't know to what extent the belligerent parties actually inflated their currencies.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

ahahahaha

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @l0k18 1 Jul 2023

It's exemplary torture. Just like the prohibition of cocaine is exemplary illegal. Just a show.

The steam trains are coming and them horses ain't gonna take you to the future.

330 sats \ 9 replies \ @SovranSystems 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin will deflate itself out of existence, leading to a Resource Based economy.

4 sats \ 5 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Im gonna pay you in chickens?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

how about in watts?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @SovranSystems 30 Jun 2023

That is right. Intrinsic value means only items that sustain life on this planet. Can you eat it, shelter yourself with it, or protect yourself with it. As we have to remember all "money" is mind control.

4 sats \ 2 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Sorry Im unable to pay you as we arent in same place at same time. Chicken money has failed in digital world. You are few thousands of years behind the curve.

Also, I dont know how to make a "standard chicken" to know Im paying you exactly as I want.

What if you already have too many chickens? My payment will fail. What a shit system brother. Im out.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SovranSystems 30 Jun 2023

Yes, I see your point. At the same time, this comes from the assumption that the earth's resources are scarce. In reality, the earth's resources are unlimited. Therefore, there does not have to ever be a "medium of exchange," as in a Resource Based economy you ask and it is given, eliminating a medium of exchange. As of right now, we can have all that we need. Governments and the belief in "money" have put us in this situation where there needs to be a "medium of exchange."

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

They indeed are unlimited but to get them takes human time and that is limited. Even making robots takes human time.

And you have no answer to counter value to that.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

This is just retarded, not controversial. You don't know how a mathematical partition works. 🤡

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SovranSystems 30 Jun 2023

Bro! What gives?! Give me your resource for mathematical "partitions." Enlighten me and I will decide who is a clown.

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 1 Jul 2023

Sure. Bitcoin is a system for partitioning the UTXO set and updating tbe partition.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_a_set#:~:text=In%20mathematics%2C%20a%20partition%20of,included%20in%20exactly%20one%20subset.

The partition gives you a distribution, and that distribution is SCALE INVARIANT.

Moreover, bitcoin are lost on a percentage basis, not quantity, so you can lose 1% per year forever and never run out.

330 sats \ 3 replies \ @faithandcredit 30 Jun 2023

People are skeptical of this space and when they see a guy buying and holding billions worth, they are not excactly getting more interested..

tl;dr no-one wants to buy Saylors bags. He is causing anti adoption imo. In the eyes of the market Bitcoin is becoming microstrategy coin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

so dumb people will they if they buy bitcoin they are buying saylor's bitcoin. ok, dumb people.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Some dont, others tkae it as vote of confidance. You arent buying Saylors bags cos he isnt selling. Obviously.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

This is pure arrogance and stupidity... to think you understand precisely the direction of events in a complex system IS LITERALLY THE EXACT SAME THING STATISTS BELIEVE. 🤡🤡🤡 ...Have yaaaa met fiat? You two should hang out

296 sats \ 4 replies \ @broadmode 30 Jun 2023

Holding #Bitcoin in tax advantaged retirement accounts (like w/ Unchained) is only an advantage if you think taxes will be lower in the future than they are now.
The real value of unregistered (NoKYC) sats is exiting the nation state and multigenerational estates, not fiat gift cards.
One should use a dedicated laptop/device to interact with their #Bitcoin savings, not their daily driver.
Retail isn't going to front run institutions like Bitcoiners are.
El Salvador is vulnerable to late-stage imperialism by the liberal world order.
BlackRock could very well succeed at paperification of Bitcoin in the medium term, effectively trapping most of the "dumb money" from exiting into Bitcoin.

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @skreep_ 30 Jun 2023

regarding #3

https://airgapcomputer.com/

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @broadmode 30 Jun 2023

I'm referring to isolating the computer you use to interface with your #Bitcoin even when using cold storage.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @021da48107 30 Jun 2023

Holding #Bitcoin in tax advantaged retirement accounts (like w/ Unchained) is only an advantage if you think taxes will be lower in the future than they are now.

If you think taxes will be lower for YOU in the future. The way the current US tax system works is you can easily make your taxable income less when you have a lot more money.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @broadmode 30 Jun 2023

Key words "current US tax system".

Demographics are skewing older in a big way.
The entire liberal monetary system is insolvent.
The reset of the monetary system will likely come this decade.

The real question is, exactly how creative will sovereigns be in confiscation going forward?

280 sats \ 6 replies \ @Lumor 30 Jun 2023

We should let miners steal sats that haven't moved for 100 years. Only in smaller amounts though, maintaining the block subsidy at whatever point in time we realize it's a good idea.

Probably after I'm dead.

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

This is simply wrong and you are too lazy to do the work to understand it. You do not have the agency to even declare this as "opinion", it is simply noise from an automaton.

6 sats \ 4 replies \ @Lumor 1 Jul 2023

We could pretend that the consensus rules always included this after 100 years. Not to cause inflation but rather to maintain the money supply regardless of human error.

Love you too. 😆

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

bitcoin doesn't need a money supply. one bitcoin is more than enough for the whole planet.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Lumor 2 Jul 2023

Sure, I'm just fond of economic stability and less ugly workarounds.

The ability to add layers is fine, but I'd prefer we don't make it technically harder to own a direct piece of layer 1.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

economic stability doesn't come from a currency, it comes from the resilience and interdependence of the communities in question.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lumor 2 Jul 2023

Economic instability can come from currencies.

230 sats \ 23 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

There wont ever be "hyperbitcoinisation". You can only hyperbitcoinize yourself. If you have bank account and preach about hyper..., you are hypocrite

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

bitcoiners still want cars and airplanes and swimming pools and places to sleep. in the status quo those things take bank accounts, especially if you want to build any of those things.

0 sats \ 21 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

Retarded. This is just lack of understanding basic economics to imagine the dollar will be around forever 😂🤣🤡

Is this the best ya got for controversial?

0 sats \ 15 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Certainly it wont happen in our lifetime.

Do you have bank account ser?

26 sats \ 14 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

Timeline is total speculation, not an absolute. I do not even rule out 1000 years of fiat even if I assign it a practically infinitesimal probability.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

A company can make their own token and mandate them inside their ecosystem. Making a fiat.

I will make such just to make sure you wont be correct as you live. There will be some fiat all your life. Deal with it or cry harder

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 1 Jul 2023

You are a contrived son of a central banker 🤡

9 sats \ 4 replies \ @designsats 1 Jul 2023

Anything to see you cry :) I need to hydrate *slurp

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 1 Jul 2023

Why would I cry? I am obviously right. You can go ahead and cry when your precious fiat is all gone in a decade or two.

view replies

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @designsats 4 Jul 2023

Imagine a 1 week blackout after natural disaster or war. Do you expect there will be something like trusted bitcoin-backed notes? If not, I listen to your proposition. How would commerce continue in such case?

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 5 Jul 2023

When you are looking for weird edge cases with a tiny scope, you can simply accept defeat with honor, rather than feigning ignorance as to the legal notion of spirit of the law.

But yes, bitcoin bearer instruments would be what you want in that situation, along with physical supplies. You have to be really dumb to think dollars will hold value so you can trade them after a natural disaster. Be better. Be a bitcoiner. Live like a bitcoiner.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @designsats 5 Jul 2023

I didnt mention dollars so you must be talking about someone else.

Considering onchain isnt for day-to-day. It couldt be something like opendime. So there will have to be trust involved.

What defeat? This isnt debate to win. Im curious whats your solution for something that happens quite frequently in many parts of the world. I had 8h blackout today. So it got me curious how would bitcoin fix that

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 5 Jul 2023

All right, maybe misinterpreted based on barrage of other comments, but check this out.

I forget whether it's on chain or not, but idk why you can't do something similar to Offline Cash with Lightning, or perhaps a not fully trustless Chaumian mint. https://twitter.com/offlinecashco

view replies

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

ok fiatist with bank account :D

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Where did I say dollar will be around forever? Fiat will be around, not dollar.

Its pretty controversial when I get people putting words in my mouth to object :)

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

USD 2.0, whatever you want to call it, doesn't make a difference, equally moronic

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

Glad we agree fiat wont go away.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

Nope, all fiats will die and you're a moron if you don't get why

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 30 Jun 2023

In previous message you said USD 2.0 will be around. Why are you talking that way about yourself?

176 sats \ 1 reply \ @nullcount 30 Jun 2023

6-confs is not enough when a single miner has 30% hashrate.

re-read page-8 of the whitepaper if you disagree.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

I will have to look in to this, but I wonder how 30% can make a difference?

175 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

There are just as many morally bankrupt grifters in Bitcoin as there are in crypto.

This may be true, I don't think it is something we can measure but the inverse is not true in my experience. I have never found the ratio of hard core users with deep technical and economic knowledge to scammers in any space besides bitcoin. The bitcoin space has far higher signal to noise ratio. When people fall into the crypto space their knowledge rarely deepens. Every crypto person I have ever met doesn't understand even the most basic technical and economic reasons for bitcoin, let alone crypto tokens they "own". They only wanna get rich. They've been scammed basically.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Jun 2023

i'd say in crypto there are more grifters 'per capita', but the total number in each group is roughly equal, since bitcoin is a much larger pool.

986 sats \ 0 replies \ @skreep_ 30 Jun 2023

The Bitcoin Standard is a shitty book, stop acting like it's the Bitcoin Bible, it is not.

Having to carve words into a steel plate is strangely primitive for a digital currency. It is a solution, but this will not be THE solution for key storage in the future.

And don't go on about multisig because that ain't it either.

Laser eyes are super cringe, it must be off-putting to newcomers. drop them from your profiles.

The Guy Fawkes mask nerds are an instant block for me, these BiTcOiNeRs are hindering adoption at every step, fuck them.

Bitcoin does not need to have cheaper fees than VISA in order to be successful.

Saylor shouldn't go on the Joe Rogan Podcast until Microstrategy is one of the world's wealthiest companies. He'll only be an interesting guest AFTER he really wins his bet and it is clear to everyone he was right (or wrong) about everything.

The whole adage "it takes 10,000 hours of studying bitcoin to start scratching the surface of it's implications" is horseshit and only highlights the educational deficits for onboarding newcomers to bitcoin.

Bitcoiners are starting to MAYBE starting to realize it, but normies aren't going to be orange pilled, ever... It's like you want people to become bitcoiners first, THEN use bitcoin, but the actual mainstream adoption will come from normies not even realizing they are using the bitcoin network to settle transactions.

For the rest of the normies, they will literally never believe it has value, then one day, it'll be worth $1M and they'll just accept it does have value, because one million.

46 sats \ 8 replies \ @02f22fc3a1 30 Jun 2023 freebie

-Bitcoin has counterparty risk -Counterparty is the network of miners. We are reliant on them to continue expending billions in expenses to secure the network. -Unlike say gold, where there is no ongoing maintenance.

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 30 Jun 2023

The counter party risk is not with the miners. If it is I must be misunderstanding what you mean by this. Bitcoin doesn't prevent counter party risk but it is the first asset where the amount has no bearing on difficulty of custody. One huge problem with gold is that it is difficult to secure large amounts of it. Bitcoin doesn't have this issue.

Not sure this is what you mean but let's say 50% of miners drop out. Or maybe more, pick a number. The difficulty adjustment would adjust and mining would continue. This happened when China banned bitcoin mining. We already know how that works.

I would say the bigger issue would be why would so many miners stop mining? If the reason was economic then we have an issue. If it is a nation state action then other nations would likely jump on the opportunity.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

if all the miners disappear and someone comes along and starts to mine illegal transactions, our nodes will still reject them, regardless of how much money this someone puts into trying to cheat.

Also, gold requires storage, which is a form of maintenance because that storage could be used for other purposes.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

ITT: "I don't understand Bitcoin and that's controversial!"

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @sudonaka 30 Jun 2023

So all the expenses for gold custodians, security, vaults don’t exist?

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @SwearyDoctor 30 Jun 2023

if the vaults stop working, that doesn't destroy YOUR gold buried in the back yard. On the contrary. While the miners protect your stacked away, airgapped bitcoin all the time. without miners.. you have a string of code on a stick.

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

the sanctity of your back yard is MAINTAINED by the state. if you don't understand that then you've got a long way to go.

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @skreep_ 6 Jul 2023

USA could carpet bomb every known bitcoin mining company on earth and we'd continue hashing blocks.

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

i don't need a miner to run a node. have you put in 100 hours yet? you're making pretty unreasonable arguments.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @022b497c76 3 Jul 2023 freebie

It's fine to sell bitcoin, how else can it be adopted?

It's how you sell.

Don't accept bids, and don't undercut the lowest ask.

11 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 30 Jun 2023

Almost all of the financial services that currently exist will still exist on a Bitcoin standard, just like they did on commodity standards.

Relatedly, most people will not want to self-custody.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @ewok 3 Jul 2023

I don't think bitcoin "either goes to zero or infinity". I think there's a solid middle ground where it behaves a bit like a moderately popular alternative asset for a long, long time, maybe hovering between 80-200k. If it crabwalks for a few decades or more, I think globally our economic/technological systems will evolve somewhat beyond "money" in any way we think of it now (but possibly still in a way that bitcoin might have a purpose).

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

The arm that wins WWIII will be paid in bitcoin.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @BTC_Bellzer 1 Jul 2023

Bitcoiners don't need to say "signal" every chance they get.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @cointastical 1 Jul 2023

Bitcoin is incompatible with money laundering regulations.

Two will enter. One will leave.

I'm placing my bets on bitcoin.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @BITC0IN 1 Jul 2023

Bitcoin is not inevitable. it requires vigilance by it's good faith volunteers. It can be improved to be more robust against state and corporate sponsored attacks. We are not yet in a truly adversarial environment. Things can get way more interesting. prepare for the worst, but hope for the best. Act in good faith.

7 sats \ 3 replies \ @Majjin 30 Jun 2023

People who criticize Bitcoiners saying they're part of a religion or cult are not entirely wrong. There are people who treat Bitcoin as a god and Satoshi as a prophet/savior, unknowingly or not.

5 sats \ 2 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

most of those people are BCashers

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Majjin 3 Jul 2023

For sure. However, I am talking about our community as well.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 3 Jul 2023

i haven't met those people. i guess i don't spend enough time here. I do host a weekly meetup, for over 100 weeks now...that's a bit religious, I'm probably the most fanatical of those i've come across and I consider myself rather mild

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @9ener1c 30 Jun 2023

I think we’re going to need bank tellers to help us do multisig.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @r0b 30 Jun 2023

We should extend the decimal places and keep mining and halving forever. (But still no more than 21m Bitcoin)

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @2bithits 30 Jun 2023

bitcoin is for everyone, including morally bankrupt grifters

7 sats \ 2 replies \ @020cd26eee 30 Jun 2023

Recursive covenants will allow governments to control Bitcoin while at the same time keeping it decentralized and thereby not killing off a trillion dollar asset class.

I posted this in a similar thread.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @netstatic 30 Jun 2023

How are recursive covenants different than if governments were to burn those coins? Surely those who don't want to engage with covenants wouldn't use coins locked in recursive covenants, so to them it would be the same as burning those coins. The same risk exists today.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @020cd26eee 1 Jul 2023

You don't have to do it. The covenant would just be an easy alternative to doing AML paperwork.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @_stacktoshi 30 Jun 2023

It's not really a fixed supply.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @m4 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin consensus rules, e.g., fixed supply, are based on social agreement and therefore can be altered by it.

16 sats \ 0 replies \ @jgbtc 1 Jul 2023

I agree. The social attack on the fixed supply is already underway. We must be vigilant. There will be very intense pressure to remove it in the future when people realize the implications of true scarcity.

40 sats \ 5 replies \ @guts 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin is not fungible.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @broadmode 30 Jun 2023

This is only true within the fiat system. Every sat "banned" by fiat bros is permanently destined for the #Bitcoin only economy.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @skreep_ 30 Jun 2023

Care to elaborate? is the angle here that their are "dirty coins" out there that aren't as fungible as the next?

bitcoin the asset is completely fungible. The network doesn't actually care how any particular person or group of persons feels toward a particular coins. If is isn't bitcoin, it can't be sent to a bitcoin address.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @guts 30 Jun 2023

Would you accept sats knowing they were used by criminals or traffickers?. Knowing where they come from using an open ledger makes the difference for some people. Note I don't mind or care.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

I don't want to accept stolen bitcoin, but that's not a fungibility issue, that's a social issue.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @skreep_ 1 Jul 2023

A $20 bill with the N-word written on it in big bold letters probably isn't likely to be accepted at a Walmart, but the bank will have to take it, because it is fungible currency.

Similarly, regardless of how anyone feels about any particular set of sats, If a transaction is broadcast, and a fee is paid, the bitcoin asset can be transacted across the Bitcoin network to a bitcoin address, because it is entirely fungible.

15 sats \ 3 replies \ @SouthParkHodl 1 Jul 2023

I have enough bitcoin and need to focus on other things. Like buying land and creating a mini citadel. No more hardcore stacking.

7 sats \ 1 reply \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

I dunno about enough, but there are certainly other things to do with life besides stacking sats. Maybe creating value for your community?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

Think about it like this, if you and yours create enough value it won't matter how much bitcoin you have, you will be able to use it it exchange values between each other.

What people often forget about bitcoin in their fixation with fiat price is that it's TOOL. It works better when you use it than when you stare at some actually unrelated number.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @nymatix 1 Jul 2023

deleted by author

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @BBitcoinUSA 1 Jul 2023

Bitcoin won’t be consciously used/spent once mass adoption has finally been achieved

2 sats \ 1 reply \ @petertodd 30 Jun 2023

https://petertodd.org/2022/surprisingly-tail-emission-is-not-inflationary

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

is this the same question: is a tail emission anti-deflationary?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @erikds 1 Jul 2023

Austrian economist Bitcoiners are generally assholes.

You are morally bankrupt if you hope for a large economic crisis which brings doom on humanity just so you can tell people "I told you so!" while sitting on a stack of bitcoin

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

most austrian economics types i've met expect a crash, but don't want one.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @mikhael28 1 Jul 2023

It won’t reach a million. That’s just a nice, round number you have in your head. No basis in anything. Either government repression or quantum computing will destroy the value of the network before then.

Lightning network will need to be subsided by someone, because the act of opening and closing a channel costs money. Most people don’t want to have an open account with someone - they want to pay, and go.

Just like how Uber was cheap when it was starting out, being subsidized by VC dollars, it became more and more expensive, and ultimately shittier, once the VC stopped subsidizing and started eking out money from the transaction fees.

If a Bitcoiner ever talks about ‘the government’ and ‘we need guns to protect ourselves’, all that tells me is that you are unable to successfully integrate into broader society and are essentially an outcast from civilization. You hope you can use money and outside the box thinking to win respect, but society will not accept you unless you find a way to stay true to yourself, and also play nice with other people. You might just be an antisocial asshole, and ‘building your citadel’ is just another way to entrench yourself in that antisocial behavior. Being a hermit can have value though.

Bitcoin is a technical solution to a political problem.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

lol.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @crrdlx 1 Jul 2023

The idea of capped max supply was the wrong way to go. Shoulda been a predictable emission, but an infinite supply.

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @BlokchainB 1 Jul 2023

Bitcoin is just software using large numbers. It’s just numbers

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

how is that controversial? who would deny that?

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @BlokchainB 2 Jul 2023

Those who think bitcoin will fix and solve anything. It’s not a coin it’s just software digits in a protocol

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

"coin" obviously a metaphor

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @BlokchainB 2 Jul 2023

Exactly the point.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

a metaphor which relates to a use case. i don't know that i take your point

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @BlokchainB 2 Jul 2023

That you need a metaphor to explain its use case. Coin as a word is synonymous with money. If they called the UTXOs beds or sands would it still have the same effect that it does today?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @premitive1 2 Jul 2023

You seem rather unpleasant. You don't like to use bitcoin as money? good on you. What are you doing here?

reply on another page

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nicosey 1 Jul 2023

Bitcoin: Just patching up money's inefficiency, not reinventing the wheel!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jul 2023

i kinda see it like the discovery of the wheel, when before we were using squares to try and move things forward.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DeltaClimbs 30 Jun 2023

Sure, I wrote two newsletter post for my controversial takes (note, I am assuming this question is implicitly for people who understand that every "crypto" other than bitcoin is a shitcoin, and that the dollar will die):

210 Years of Darkness https://heaviside.substack.com/p/210-years-of-darkness-on-bitcoin

tl;dr bitcoiners unfortunately may have higher levels of retardation than some may like to believe -- it could take many decades AFTER hyperbitcoinization for the foolishness to drain out before sound capital allocation really kicks into high gear. Stupid people getting poorer is the fundamental way that bitcoin works, but that process takes time.

Bitcoin mining wastes energy (and that's a good thing, don't get too triggered by the title, lol) https://heaviside.substack.com/p/bitcoin-mining-wastes-energy-but

tl;dr Bitcoin mining actually does waste energy, which is the entire point! Idiots like Saylor spew nonsense about bitcoin being energy, which makes people gloss over the hard physics that shows it is actually the least wasteful system, but just like a 100% efficient engine is impossible in the real world, you cannot beat Bitcoin's efficiency at what it actually does, which is information preservation with minimal loss.

Attempts to say the mining is good because it makes energy more efficient is giving in to leftist frame that subsidies are logical and that capitalism on its own is not enough i.e. it is sound money that fixes the grid, not the money 🤡...not to mention the levels of cuckery needed to simp for renewables. 🤡🤡🤡

Bonus one I remembered I made an entire website for: great stagnootooors like Peter Thiel are fucking retards. Y'all ain't running the numbers, so here is me holding your hand. https://civilizationmetrics.org/
Bonus bonus: Jeff Booth is retarded and he is basically what a midwit thinks a smart person sounds like. His book is trash, its desire is mimetic, and no one will read it within a decade.... He is part of the idiot-yet-influencer class who became thinkbois starting late 2020. These people do not truly NEED bitcoin. https://twitter.com/DiracDel/status/1552026649226383360?s=20

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @398ja 30 Jun 2023

Bitcoin will be captured within the next two generations.