How do you consider volatility in Bitcoin payments? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

How do you consider volatility in Bitcoin payments?

1032 sats \ 25 comments \ @lightwalker 26 Sep 2023 bitcoin

Many people consider volatility as a drawback to accepting Bitcoin for payments. However, if Bitcoin is widely accepted without any relationship with the fiat, a business or individual would not worry about losing any portion of their payment. There would be no need for anyone to sell Bitcoins, trying to turn them into fiat, in order to use them to pay bills.

Everything would be paid in Bitcoins. No middleman, no high charges, no delayed payments, no chargebacks.

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368 sats \ 0 replies \ @kristapsk 26 Sep 2023

For some stuff I already often set price in sats, not euros or dollars. And will just change price from time to time if BTC/USD exchange rate changes a lot.

213 sats \ 2 replies \ @notgeld 26 Sep 2023

Https://Standardsats.github.io

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 26 Sep 2023

Is this trustless?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @notgeld 26 Sep 2023

No. Unless you decide to run everything on your server. But even then you need to hold some funds on exchange.

42 sats \ 14 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Sep 2023

People are retarded. Fiat is volatile not Bitcoin. Volatility is only for fiat maxis pussies.

279 sats \ 12 replies \ @SpaceHodler 26 Sep 2023

Imagine a vendor in a poor country like El Salvador, who has no savings. His profit margin is 10%, which means if he generates 1.1m sats of revenue in a given month, he expects his costs to be 1m sats, leaving him a net profit of 100k sats.

But when it comes time to pay his bills, his sats suddenly lose 20% of their purchasing power overnight as they often do, and his bills turn out to be 1.25m sats and not 1m. But he can't pay them, because he only has 1.1m sats.

But your privileged, in-bitcoin-since-2013 (or whatever) mouth calls him a fiat maxi pussy, and people with enough imagination to foresee such a scenario retarded.

347 sats \ 3 replies \ @MrM 26 Sep 2023

Im Salvadorian class of 21 let me explaine how we make this work and I love the numbers you use because thats exactly my numbers. so we have an app called chivo where we have bitcoin and Chivo dollars so since I am not an idiot I keep my rent electricity food and so on in Chivo dollars I always charge my self more so say electricity was 13 this month I charge me 20 and put 7 in btc water 3 I charge me 7 put 4 in btc once you do this long enough and stack enough you don't mind the volatility this is how I manage originaly. The way I do it now is I get paid In fiat convert on the spot to btc pay my bills as fast as I can and enjoy the ride,You forgot one thing bitcoin is a savings technology only when you master it and been in it long enough and stacked enough you then graduate to spend it. Btw what happens to the Salvadorian when he stacks and it goes up 20%?

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @SpaceHodler 26 Sep 2023

Good for you! But you use dollars, which makes you a fiat maxi ;)

To stack sats you need to have money left after your bills have been paid. Glad to hear you are able to do that. When it goes up your stacking will be rewarded. But some people live paycheck to paycheck and they won't; they're stuck in the slavery cycle.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Sep 2023

I earn in bitcoin. I spend in bitcoin. I hold in bitcoin. I do not have anymore fiat and bank accounts.

If you want to be like me, you can IF YOU REALLY WANT IT. Otherwise... HFSP.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @MrM 26 Sep 2023

My reply was my journey to bitcoin only living I live 100% off of lighting

As for paycheck to paycheck there is always a way to save example here in ES people drink a lot of soda, well water is healthier and you can save in sats there really is no excuse. My people have a spending problem not a saving problem.

To live on the bitcoin standard like @darthcoin and I you need to be way more responsible with your finances. it is achievable even for a Salvadorian, I am living proof. Bankless and proud

Plz stop feeding Fiat

240 sats \ 5 replies \ @fiatbad 26 Sep 2023

The more the supply chains are denominated in Bitcoin, the less this will matter.

You're talking about purchasing power going up and down in relation to fiat. But what if people stop caring about the relationship to fiat? What if the farmers price their base goods in Sats, and don't do fiat conversion at all?

Say a local farmer prices a gallon of his milk for a flat 100,000 Sats. Now, the local cheesemaker and the baker now know exactly how many Sats they need in order to source the milk they need to create their products. They can reliably price their products in Sats, not tied to fiat in any way.

I mean, this is how it works already with most foreign currencies. People aren't usually converting the Yen into dollars before buying something in Japan. That's insane. Yet, this is how everyone thinks when it comes to Bitcoin.... for some damned frustrating reason.

Bitcoin is only tied to fiat because we are making it so. This will change.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @SpaceHodler 26 Sep 2023

Volatility is not volatility in the fiat price, but in the purchasing power. You can remove fiat from the face of the Earth, but you can't remove milk or cheese. As long as there is stuff to buy with BTC, it will have a purchasing power, and as an inelastic supply money its purchasing power will be subject to sources of volatility that are inherent in inelastic supply monies / assets.

Pricing stuff in BTC will stabilize it to some extent due to an anchoring bias.

1194 sats \ 2 replies \ @fiatbad 26 Sep 2023

Ah, I see. Your original comment implied volatility because of global BTC demand and conversion rates to fiat. But if you are meaning volatility due to its inelastic nature, that's a different conversation.

A few thoughts on that:

First, that kind of volatility will only experience massive 20% moves overnight due to some major change in the goods/services themselves. So, if aliens attack all the milk farms in the world overnight, there will be volatility in milk the next day. This would happen even in an elastic-money world also, however. The Central Banks use their tricks to try to flatten the curve in both directions, so that price movements are less extreme. But they can only do that on a large-scale. They can't do anything about the price of milk, specifically, after my hypothetical alien lactose intolerance.

I think we've been brainwashed by the Keynesians on many economic topics, including the differences in elastic vs inelastic money. I think wild price swings will happen EQUALLY in both systems, as I explained above. And I think their ability to manipulate the curve is an overestimated, mostly non-existent benefit. We've never had the entire world on a single hard-money standard before. Where all the supply chains across the board are anchored by a single, inelastic currency. I think something like this would "flatten the curve" in the same way Central Banks attempt to do now. The wide distribution across multiple trading jurisdictions would remove the need for elasticity. The system would be large enough, and distributed enough.

Obviously, I'm speaking hypothetically now, because we haven't actually tried this as a civilization yet. But I hope I'm getting my ideas across well enough.

The tldr is: Elastic money supplies don't "reduce volatility" nearly as much as we have been 'sold' they do. This kind of volatility will be roughly the same in both systems. (In my opinion). Keynesianism is a hellofa drug.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Sep 2023

alien lactose intolerance.

brilliant example!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 26 Sep 2023

I see what you're getting at, perhaps it's easier to explain this way:

When there is fiat, a whale can sell a large amount of BTC for fiat, causing volatility. When there is no fiat, only BTC, it's impossible to dispose of a large amount of BTC, because there is no other liquid asset to sell it for. You can't spend thousands of BTC for megatons of cheese or milk, because there is not enough cheese, not enough milk and transporting / storing large amounts of these goods is problematic. In other words, there is no way to 'dump' BTC.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Sep 2023

LOL man, please go back to school to the economy classes. @fiatbad just explained you very well how is it, yet you refuse to understand. This stubbornness will push you to the dark limits of fiat slavery.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Sep 2023

His profit margin is 10%

You will never understand bitcoin... your fiat mindset doesn't let you understanding it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 26 Sep 2023

Good, now please go back to using your shity fiat. WILL BE MORE SATS FOR ME. If you understand what does it means that...

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 26 Sep 2023

hehe, that is kind of true problem is, economy is not a closed system. So, we have to co-exist with fiat. Volatily is a drawback for sure. And i prey for mass adoption, but fact is theres a problem there.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Entrep 26 Sep 2023

We are just few years to the realisation where volatility wouldn't be a problem

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @purpurato 26 Sep 2023

There would be no need for anyone to sell Bitcoins, trying to turn them into fiat

You're right and the sooner we get there the better, but we're still so far from it. This is why I'm helping merchants accept it and take the whole myself, I want them first to see it as a payment system that is easier, faster etc. They will eventually see that there is so much more to it than the payment network layer, but one step at a time.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @GregAsks 26 Sep 2023

1 BTC = 1 BTC

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @fm 26 Sep 2023

would not worry about losing any portion of their payment

This makes no sense.. Once you escalate this to a lot of payments, you will realize how much money you lose.

Volatility is indeed one of the biggest problems.

Anf honestly, if theres mass adoption, you cant exclude high charges with a full mempool

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 26 Sep 2023

Tx fees will become less of an issue as Bitcoin scales.

Yes, volatility is a problem short-term when your business is low margin, and with the inelastic supply it's bound to be volatile, although less so with increased adoption. If its purchasing power continues to rise and your margins are high, it becomes less of a problem.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @fm 26 Sep 2023

when your business is low margin

Problem is, with actual business models we have out there, margins are always slim. If you are looking for profit after taxes and expose it to volatility, you go from earn to lose real fast.. this def works agains us maxis..