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642 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Nov 2023 freebie
If you run a LN node, you can set min HTLC to 10 or 100 sats. But you need to do that with all your channels.
That means others can't route these payments through your node and also you can't receive them if are lower than your limit.
But if you just use a custodial account, it is almost nothing you can do, than just receive sats.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 15 Nov 2023
I agree with DarthCoin that Min HTLC is the current solution.
I wonder if disabling messaging could be a BIP and/or a setting in the different Lightning node implementations in the future.
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20 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Nov 2023
https://i.postimg.cc/yNmVT4xg/darth-make-them-pay.png
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155 sats \ 8 replies \ @Satograms 15 Nov 2023
Hey now. We are the Satogram team. Many of the replies here are accurate but we'll do a summary:
- most lightning addresses pulled from nostr where people publicly shared them.
- place on our site to manually add your node pubkey or lightning address
- to be removed off the list, we need proof you control the node or lightning address, otherwise you 'd be able to remove other people's addresses/pubkeys
- we want wallets to add a filter users can set so that they don't see Satograms under a certain sat value (Zeus has done this) . Or, a separate Satogram "folder"
- All satograms are tagged with a custom record field so that the htlc can be identified as a Satogram as opposed to a regular payment
- Wallets who embrace Satograms have a new revenue stream. I.e. custodial wallets can collect some of the sats, or for extra fee feature the Satograms (phone notification, special icon, clickable links, embedded images, etc)
Perhaps an AMA would be good.
Seeking any and all feedback.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 15 Nov 2023
When you send to a lightning address, are you utilizing LUD-12 comments? If so, how do you handle the various limits of comment length by various LN Addr providers? Or are payments all via Keysend?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Satograms 15 Nov 2023
only keysends are being used to send to pubkeys currently. To lightning addresses we use do utilize lud 12 comments but also include in the custom records field the message, inside field 34349334 (as well as the Satogram identifier field 6789998212). Currently we just ensure that the lightning address supports comments, but are not taking into consideration the allowable length. In practice it seems lightning address providers are not adhering to the length that their lightning addresses specify.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 16 Nov 2023
Thank you for the response!
That’s interesting. IIRC Wallet of Satoshi specifies an allowed length of 32, which felt small. I wonder if they’re enforcing it. SN enforces theirs at 1000 chars
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @nakamoto502 15 Nov 2023
I went to your talk at Adopting Bitcoin, really good!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satograms 15 Nov 2023
thank you!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xD43m0n 21 Nov 2023 freebie
Why is it a requirement to verify/sign your own the wallet to be removed but not to be added?
What if i don't want this spam in my wallet posted on nostr? also this creates an incentive for someone to create multiple accounts and just farm free sats with a lot of wallets, would be amazed if this hasn't happened yet.
0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Zepasta OP 15 Nov 2023
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satograms 15 Nov 2023
yeah a good point, and I dont think theres a perfect solution for this. If the wallets have barriers to prevent making duplicate accounts and lightning addresses, thats one barrier.
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31 sats \ 0 replies \ @raymond50romero 15 Nov 2023
Honestly, I didn’t know this existed. I think this is pretty cool and I personally don’t mind receiving some free sats to read some message some random person sends me
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150 sats \ 1 reply \ @CruncherDefi 15 Nov 2023
Wallets should have a setting for 'minimum sats threshold for message notification'. That way everyone individually sets the price for their attention and this problem is solved.
That way you either:
- get free sats without attention lost (if below threshold)
- get advertised message, that someone really wanted you to get because they paid high enough to penetrate your paywall, more likely to be worth your time (if over threshold)
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @allen 16 Nov 2023
came here to say this. it's not a protocol issue. if people wanna pay me for absolutely nothing, go right ahead. I just want to be able to reliably ignore it.
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12 sats \ 1 reply \ @BitByBit21 15 Nov 2023
We've seen a lot of spam recently on LN.tips too. While I don't mind getting free sats now and then, it's quite annoying getting a bunch of notifications just for ads.
Dr. Calle recently posted this on Nostr:
I don't oppose zapvertising but I think it should be an opt-in feature relying on users instead of advertisers or wallet managers in custodial implementations.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @EagleSats 17 Nov 2023 freebie
Hi, EagleSats here.
We agree with your sentiment. This new way of advertising is incredibly unique and we're all figuring it out as we go!
Advertising is not inherently bad, but spam kinda is....
Thats why we made the decision to change to opt-in only. We cut all addresses which we obtained from public means and now only send to addresses that actually want to receive ads and sats.
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9 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 15 Nov 2023
Your concerns are valid. It's an interesting service and in my opinion has some potential, but it definitely needs to improve.
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6 sats \ 1 reply \ @Ice9 15 Nov 2023
I've been receiving a bunch of these payment ads to WOS and have never opted in to a service like that.
Someone definitely grabbed my address and did it for me.
Maybe pulled it off of a Nostr profile??
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta OP 15 Nov 2023
Very likely.
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8 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheBTCManual 15 Nov 2023
Yeah I totally get those concerns, I think for custodial wallets giving users the option to receive these messages or setting a limit would help, while those with their own nodes can already do that
I think the potential for abuse sorts itself out, people won't post satograms if they don't get a return in engagement and traffic, and if people want to farm LN wallets let them, doesn't look like a good use of time, but hey let people find that out on their own
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta OP 15 Nov 2023
maybe require some sort of verification, can be Nostr for example, as a way to only allow real people to be included in the receiving ad list, this would invalid abusers spamming wallets.
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3 sats \ 0 replies \ @fred 15 Nov 2023
Yea, I agree to this, the execution is flawed
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Walletano 26 Nov 2023
Hello, we've developed satsforads.net with user consent in mind.
- Our DB is totally opt-in. We never scraped any lightning address from Twitter, Nostr, etc. All our current 918 members signed up to receive sats. We also work on an automated way to remove a lightning address that no longer wants to receive satsforads. How? We ask the lightning address owner to pay a 1 sat invoice and immediately send back the 1 sat to the lightning address with a secure code / or link. A random 8 character string will work. Then user is sent to a link where he can enter the 8 character string and voila, the lightning address is removed from the DB. This way we can make sure, that nobody can remove the lightning address, only the owner. You might question, why do we need the user to pay first a 1 sat invoice to us? To prevent abuse from users. 2, This one is harder but while we don't scrape websites to look for new lightning addresses, we actively scrape the net and try to minimize the abuse of using multiple addresses by the same person. Of course, we let someone register as many lightning addresses as he want, but you will notice that not all of them will be included in campaigns.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @lightning_poker 17 Nov 2023
Love seeing this experiment play out in real-time!
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 15 Nov 2023
Second concerns is legit. First one isn't, imo.
I remember in my childhood I must watched 50 more advertises to continue watch movie on TV, now I got payed in sats for small message. I'm ready to get all your messages if you ready to gift me your scarce sats
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bluematt 15 Nov 2023
It'd be pretty easy for lightning nodes/wallets to just stop showing/highlighting the message. That would probably deter spam pretty quickly.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @allonoumimelissa 15 Nov 2023
I see that I am sent 1 sat a few times in my wallet yet I have not put my address on these sites, I hope they will not empty my wallet with that.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Nov 2023
What I just said before?
Some other services are already implementing it.
https://primal.net/e/note1ym0p4qlswhkhxfz5wqs23j5rrkuc6zlgn0z0kw3xxlmzvjsfv3sqzs5hqa
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ToxicSaraTV 15 Nov 2023
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