SN release: territories, formerly known as user generated subs \ stacker news ~meta

SN release: territories, formerly known as user generated subs

25.7k sats \ 141 comments \ @k00b 5 Dec 2023 meta

territories

You can now created your own ~~subs~~ territories. Note: this is just an MVP. It's probably 5% of what we have planned for territories.

edit: you can create them from the dropdown in the top bar

currently

50% of all revenue made by the territory is paid to the founder at the end of the day texas time
- the other 50% goes to rewards
- this split will eventually be configurable, eg the founder gets 100% of revenue or rewards get 100% of revenue
- the territories revenue is the revenue SN would ordinarily collect: 100% posting costs, 10% of zaps, 100% of boost
territory founders can configure and edit indefinitely:
- base post cost
- post types
- you can't currently edit the name or billing type but that'll be implemented eventually
- eventually everything

planned

seamless crossposting and retroactive crossposting between territories
subscribing/unsubscribing to territories
create territories within other territories, eg ~bitcoin/privacy and ~bitcoin/mining
- the territory founder can sell sub-territories to other stackers at a price of their choosing
more post types
more economic parameters

That's it mostly. Let me know if you have questions.

what's next

While we will definitely be iterating on territories, you might have noticed we are prioritizing legal. It's all WIP but our focus for the next few weeks (after editing out all the wonky copy-paste legalese in those docs) will be on wallet stuff.

We haven't exactly figured out our plans yet but you can expect more non-custodial support at the very least. I promise not to surprise you with anything weird and to discuss any potentially large changes should we end up making them.

yeehaw cowboys!

view all related items

1342 sats \ 2 replies \ @elvismercury 5 Dec 2023

This is probably why btc is pumping,.

229 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 6 Dec 2023

lol, @k00b, didn't I mention this in a somewhat recent meeting? Imagine bitcoin going to pump when we release territories

Please tell me you remember, I'm actually not sure if I did say that out loud or if my mind is just making things up right now haha

323 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 6 Dec 2023

Your prediction markets MVP could also be the reason. One of those two things, for sure.

825 sats \ 3 replies \ @dk 5 Dec 2023

love the name. feels like a bit of real estate and not just some vague virtual space

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

Thanks! We debated it a lot. It's a mouthful but worth the unusually aligned metaphor.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 6 Dec 2023

We debated it a lot.

but in hindsight, it was inevitable, lol

3 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 6 Dec 2023

Reminds me of the game RISK, which I love!

925 sats \ 11 replies \ @kr 5 Dec 2023

@grayruby your wish has been granted, wen ~sports?

416 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 5 Dec 2023

I know. Where is he?

859 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

still posting meta takeovers 😂😂😂

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

Haha. I would have been but my daughter wanted to play in the snow.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

ahhhh that is nice and more important than SN. Enjoy it.

325 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

My daughter wanted to play in the snow.

This is very exciting news. The battle is won and now the war begins. SN and zapping sats will be the standard for internet discourse.

497 sats \ 3 replies \ @elvismercury 5 Dec 2023

@k00b probably finished territories bc @grayruby and @Undisciplined were driving him insane.

5 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

420 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 5 Dec 2023

I would like to applaud @k00b for handling this tense situation with great grace and dignity.

15 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

I will join in this applause.

214 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

653 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 6 Dec 2023

Congratulations on shipping territories! I know how hard and long you’ve been working on this. It’s fantastic to see!

570 sats \ 1 reply \ @TonyGiorgio 6 Dec 2023

Not sure how I feel about it yet but it's cool to see it being explored. One recommendation, enforce some uniformity with the names. It starts to get a bit ugly with all of the combinations of letter casing and underscores happening. I'm always in favor of restricting user optionality originally and expand from there as more usage occurs.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @ek 6 Dec 2023

I felt the same way when I noticed capital letters and underscores and was wondering: what characters are allowed in a reddit sub name?

Didn't find out, only this, lol

But capital letters are definitely allowed. Makes sense, for camel case. But underscore? Snake case?

324 sats \ 1 reply \ @benthecarman 6 Dec 2023

Have you thought of having a reward pool individual to each territory? Could be interesting where if I am active in a territory that blows up in popularity I am rewarded for it.

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 6 Dec 2023

That's the plan. Basically the goal is to have a fully recursive tree structure and every territory, sub-territory, sub-sub-territory and so on is a miniature SN. Too much shit to do though lol

324 sats \ 0 replies \ @thursday 6 Dec 2023

Absolutely monstrous work! Can't wait to see how much SN grows.

244 sats \ 0 replies \ @beorange 6 Dec 2023

Awesome, I think this is a great idea and seems very well thought.

One minor suggestion: Perhaps there should be some rules for the territory name (all lowercase, no special characters, or others), because the lists looks a bit messy at the moment.

229 sats \ 1 reply \ @Zepasta 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

64 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

It's unlikely any territory will be profitable immediately too.

224 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 5 Dec 2023

What a coincidence. Today I dreamed about this release #339163

142 sats \ 15 replies \ @carlosfandango 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

406 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 5 Dec 2023

I'm going to slowly move all the meta Music Mondays posts across to the music sub but I'll have to do it 2moro as it's late now and I've got an early morning.

But I've got a couple ideas on how to expand meta Music Mondays from a once a week to some more fun throughout the week.

24 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 5 Dec 2023

Looks like I got work to do haha! I dont know if I've got enough ideas to post enough content for an entire sub! But I'll sure try my best!

21 sats \ 12 replies \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

This must occur.

1454 sats \ 11 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 5 Dec 2023

I'm going to need to move sats about to pay founder fee, but I'll sure give it a whirl.

I am concerned that how expensive it is to create a sub/territory that it'll price out a lot of discussion. But we shall see.

71 sats \ 6 replies \ @ek 6 Dec 2023

I am concerned that how expensive it is to create a sub/territory that it'll price out a lot of discussion.

Valid concern but I think when there is more data about how much sats founders earn back, I think we will think differently about this :)

456 sats \ 4 replies \ @grayruby 6 Dec 2023

There is a founding new territory wave right now but I think that will die down. It should be cost prohibitive to create a sub otherwise you will have chaos and subs created for everything. I almost prefer you guys didn't offer the 100k sats/month option outside of the first 30 days. After 30 days you should have to decide if you want to commit for a year or not. Or maybe you even lower it to 50k sats for the first month as a trial so people can test their ideas but then make is 1M sats for a year if they want to keep going. Or possibly a 6 month option. 550k sats.

399 sats \ 3 replies \ @carlosfandango 6 Dec 2023

deleted by author

405 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby 6 Dec 2023

It will be difficult to break even solely from revenue the sub generates. Need around 3k sats a day to break even. That is feasible if you are posting, replying, earning zaps and rewards. I received 6k sats yesterday but only 120 were from the sub revenue. First day and not a full day but I would guess you probably need 10-15 highly engaged posts a day per sub to break even just on sub revenue. It will take awhile and many more stackers on the site to reach that point but we can get there. Tell your friends to get on SN.

50 sats \ 1 reply \ @carlosfandango 6 Dec 2023

deleted by author

view replies

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 6 Dec 2023

Absolutely only way to find out is to give it a shot

21 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

Try it for a month and see how it goes.

32 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 5 Dec 2023

Exactly my thinking.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

I only paid for one month so far.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 6 Dec 2023

me too with ~oracle btw haha

152 sats \ 0 replies \ @JesseJames 9 Dec 2023

That was a phenomenal idea. This place feels even more alive. Thanks for doing that!

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 5 Dec 2023

This is awesome! Thank you for your good work!

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 5 Dec 2023

NICE

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @erict875 7 Dec 2023

Congratulations, SN! Territories are a great idea. Very well thought out. Bitcoin monetisation really changes the game, and you guys understand it better than anyone else. I'm very excited to see what's next. All the best!

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @benwehrman 6 Dec 2023

If I want to test out being a Founder for a few months, could I eventually switch from the 100K/month payment to the 3M to lock it in forever? Or are you stuck with whichever payment method you choose permanently?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 6 Dec 2023

We aren't sure how the transition should work from one payment plan to another yet but the plan is to allow you to switch.

35 sats \ 4 replies \ @Zepasta 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

44 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

The territory archives. New posts aren't allowed.

Perhaps if it lapses for 30 days, we'll foreclose on it and offer it for sale to someone else.

646 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 5 Dec 2023

Makes me think of Stacker News auctions. The perfect use-case to build that functionality for future product listings.

Because of course, you’ve nothing else left on the roadmap now.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 5 Dec 2023

I paid for one month because I had enough sats for that on SN. Am I stuck month to month now or will I be able to just pay for a year before the end of the first month?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @beorange 6 Dec 2023

Perhaps if it lapses for 30 days, we'll foreclose on it and offer it for sale to someone else.

Makes sense

33 sats \ 2 replies \ @AR0w 5 Dec 2023

Things to think about adding:

admins and moderators

333 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

you moderate with sats...

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta 5 Dec 2023

no. dont turn this into reddit 2.0, we cant have any kind of censorship. you moderate with sats.

31 sats \ 6 replies \ @davidw 5 Dec 2023

Tomorrow is likely going to be a big payout day 👀

879 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

Territory fees don't go to rewards. Some people might call this a business model.

121 sats \ 3 replies \ @davidw 5 Dec 2023

Thanks for clarifying. Makes total sense now

169 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

That was terse and ambiguous and seems snarky on second reading. Not my intention! I meant it to sound playful my bad.

323 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 5 Dec 2023

Didn't read it that way at all. Makes sense to help pay the bills, especially with the added legal burden.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 6 Dec 2023

That was terse and ambiguous and seems snarky on second reading. Not my intention! I meant it to sound playful my bad.

Now I read it this way! haha

I think it was a cool way to tell that's part of our business model :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 5 Dec 2023

🤣

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @tnuts420 5 Dec 2023

so what happens if you found a territory for say a month, but don't pay again after the month is up? is it just up for grabs, or does it get deleted, or what?

75 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

The territory archives. New posts aren't allowed. Perhaps if it lapses for 30 days, we'll foreclose on it and offer it for sale to someone else.

What happens to the content in it?

It'll be viewable. You just won't be able to create new content in it until someone starts maintaining it again.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Wumbo 5 Dec 2023

Keep up the good work.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @cyberpunk02 5 Dec 2023

Yeah exciting!

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @NoStranger 5 Dec 2023

Territories? So many kings will rise on SN.

30 sats \ 12 replies \ @Natalia 5 Dec 2023

really cool, but curious what's the difference posting it in meta and other user generated subs as creator? like what are the extra benefits 🧐

531 sats \ 11 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

There isn't much difference. You can always store your shoes in the oven. 😄

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

It's a good trick. That way the cats can't chew your snickers. 😄😄😄😄

0 sats \ 9 replies \ @Natalia 5 Dec 2023

I'm trying to understand is it make sense to create one, but I haven't find much benefits yet 😂

199 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

Right now, I'd only create one if you have an interest in creating a community that's awkward to have in ~meta or if you think you might be able to lead a community on a topic that could eventually make you money.

21 sats \ 7 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

You will always have the SN Saloon... the best place ever.

9 sats \ 6 replies \ @Natalia 5 Dec 2023

exactly! and free to come and go as you please, right @nemo

12 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

the grifters will be the first ones in creating territories, mark my words.

12 sats \ 3 replies \ @Natalia 5 Dec 2023

observing, I saw two being created so far, cats and dogs & books and articles.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @carlosfandango 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

view replies

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 5 Dec 2023

22 sats \ 3 replies \ @Zepasta 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

883 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

To SN. It's mine now.

451 sats \ 0 replies \ @Zepasta 5 Dec 2023

deleted by author

323 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

so finally you have money for beers

70 sats \ 0 replies \ @lunanto 5 Dec 2023

I love the territory sell off

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

@Car does this means now SNL will go for discussing top 5 for each territory ? How many hours will be SNL from now on? 😂😂😂

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 5 Dec 2023

lol damn didn't think about that, i imagine will still go over the top 5 on stacker news home page right @k00b?

this is cool tho, cause now I can choose my favs from different territories

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 5 Dec 2023

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @hasherstacker 6 Dec 2023

Nice development. Never thought of this, considering, the Bitcoin sub includes all: nostr, economics, technology, finance, freedom, science, geopolitics, philosophy, history, etc.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @erict875 5 Dec 2023

Awesome, but I'm worried the drop down is going to get messy?

431 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

It is but its software fortunately 😌

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @mrtali 1 Apr

Where to create territories? I can't find it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 2 Apr

Click on the territory dropdown then at the very bottom there's create.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Wumbo 7 Dec 2023

Small request - Can Dev team added how much longer the Territory has before expiring in the territory detail section. Example: UFO Territory Expires in 28 days

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @AR0w 6 Dec 2023

where the revenue from a crossposted post between 2 subs go ?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b OP 6 Dec 2023

It's not implemented yet but ...

Crossposting will require paying posting costs in all subs you're crossposting to.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @AR0w 7 Dec 2023

I mean the 10% from the zap who will benefit it from that 2 subs ?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 7 Dec 2023

Even split

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @satoshiplanet 6 Dec 2023

Awesome 🤠⚡

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 6 Dec 2023

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @CruncherDefi 6 Dec 2023

I don't like the economy of founders. It incentivizes users to make many low-effort obvious territories before others can claim the name.

There needs to be some kind of take-over-name flow (possibly where users vote with sats to pass some name to other sub) so there might be different subs on the same topics with different moderators competing with each other, and best one wins over the most canonical name according to community.

For example, if users are not happy with moderators of "minecraft" sub they might create "minecraft2" sub. And eventually if enough sats say so, they might take over original "minecraft" name if thats what community want.

Takeover flow is needed to have self-correcting dynamics playing out in here.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SpaceHodler 6 Dec 2023

deleted by author

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xIlmari 6 Dec 2023

~~Subs~~ territories cost money to create and maintain? OMG dude, stop giving Reddit ideas. /s

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @benthecarman 6 Dec 2023

Glad you got this out before the bull market. Last major feature for the next 2 years as we just all stare at price charts 😂

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoinisawesome 6 Dec 2023

What do you think of adding the option to post in multiple territories at the same time? That’d be cool

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scholarhacker 6 Dec 2023

Cool.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @PlebeiusG 6 Dec 2023

ok - so I don't understand the billing. I get that it's 100,000 in order to create one... but are there fees accosted with it? Will I have to pay 3 million sats once or incur an ongoing fee as long as the territory exists?

9 sats \ 3 replies \ @k00b OP 6 Dec 2023

Yes 3 million sats means no future recurring costs to keep the territory.

1 million sats/year means every year you will pay 1 million sats to keep the territory.

100 thousand sats/month means every month you will pay 100 thousand sats to keep the territory.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @PlebeiusG 6 Dec 2023

deleted by author

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 6 Dec 2023

What does ownership give me? I don't want to moderate it - that's too much work.

Our goal is to give you economic tools such that people self-moderate like they do in a market. I can't promise our tools will solve every need for moderation, but our goal is to do that.

Even without moderation, creating a vibrant territory is going to be a lot of work in terms of engaging with and encouraging contributions.

Do I get the 10-sat fee when people post? Do I get the 1 sat fee when people reply? Is there a revenue split?

As is you get 50% of all posting fees/zap fees/boost. The other 50% goes to rewards. We plan to allow you to configure this split (giving up to 100% to yourself). Think of it like shopify - fixed costs paid to us and you keep whatever you earn, be it small or large.

323 sats \ 0 replies \ @PlebeiusG 6 Dec 2023

I'm sorry I deleted my post I thought my questions were really stupid. I re-read the post and it seemed to answer my questions - I'm just really excited! I want to drop 3M sats but OMG that's a lot of sats!!!

I'm doing the math in my head. Thanks for your reply!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @south_korea_ln 6 Dec 2023

Who is the first to gamble on squatting a shitcoin territory?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @guts 6 Dec 2023

Moderate with sats is the best to avoid censorship aka Reddit.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @random_ 6 Dec 2023

Can territories be muted?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 6 Dec 2023

Not currently!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @GlobalThreat 5 Dec 2023

this is amazing.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @elvismercury 5 Dec 2023

50% of all revenue made by the territory is paid to the founder at the end of the day texas time

What does "revenue" mean? If I zap a post or a comment, right now the zap goes to the poster / commenter. Does this mean that if these things are attached to territories, half the zap amount of that thing goes to the enclosing territory?

228 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

If I zap a post or a comment, right now the zap goes to the poster / commenter

90% goes to the poster/commenter. 10% is revenue.

In the native territories ~bitcoin, ~nostr, ~meta, and ~tech 100% of this 10% goes to rewards. In stacker territories, 50% of this 10% goes to the founder, 50% of the 10% goes to rewards.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 5 Dec 2023

Gracias, gotcha.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @phatom 5 Dec 2023

Only whales can own territories, know this and know peace

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @davidw 5 Dec 2023

What happens to content and posts in that territory if it gets dropped or unmaintained later?

185 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

It'll be viewable. You just won't be able to create new content in it until someone starts maintaining it again.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 5 Dec 2023

this territory would mine millions of satoshis

0 sats \ 10 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

What about rules inside each territory? Cowboys must defend their territory somehow, right? Or is something that will come later?

54 sats \ 9 replies \ @k00b OP 5 Dec 2023

Rules for now are the same as the rules on SN - enforced with zapping. We will give cowboys defenses too eventually should they want them.

11 sats \ 8 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

we need pistols, soon...

Darth opening a new territory, the negotiations table is open... Shitcoiners coming to my table must be "disarmed".

0 sats \ 7 replies \ @Natalia 5 Dec 2023

what would be theme there?

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @Natalia 5 Dec 2023

so what's difference in Darth's territory and in Bitcoin 😂 having more Darth's rules?

42 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 5 Dec 2023

nobody will discuss anything. They will ONLY read (my guides)