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547 sats \ 30 replies \ @quark 17 Dec 2023 \ on: How to secure backup seed at the airport? bitcoin
In your brain. Memorize your additional passphrase. Do not use the 12 or 24 words only.
Or use border wallets. With sparrow wallet for example. https://www.borderwallets.com
I did this memorizing 2-4 words at a time and it was relatively easy. Say them to yourself multiple times per day until it sticks, then add another 2-4 words.
Now I just say my words to myself once every few days just to ensure that they stay.
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no no no, don't memorize the 24 words. You will forget them. That technique, while it is good, it is not 100% safe. The brain changes with age, and for the worst, and also, you could have an accident, some head trauma, that can make you forget everything.
Memorize your passphrase which is like the 25th word. The passphrase can be something more easy to remember for you than the 24 random words because you make it, and still be secure just to cross the border and airports.
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Who said I memorized 24 words?
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oh it is true
I thought you were, because the way you described the technique adding 2-4 words each time. But you didn't say this was to memorize the 24 words.
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How to use passpharse to recover 24 words? Do you mean simply encrypt them using some algorithm and passpharse?
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Download Sparrow Wallet on your desktop computer and you'll see that when you create new wallet, not only can you select 12/24 words, but you can select an option to add an additional word or set of characters of your own choosing. This word or set of characters does not have to be part of the BIP39 word bank.
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the passphrase is your 25th word or 13th word depending if you use 24 or 12 for the seed. It is created when you create your wallet. If your wallet doesn't provide you with a way to enter the passphrase, change your wallet. Memorize your passphrase just to cross the airport.
You were worried that they can scan your 24 words at the airport. If they enter those 24 words without your passphrase, they would only see an empty wallet. They can't do anything with it. They would need the 25 words in order to access your sats.
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You simply mean a wallet that additionally requires an additional password to recreate the wallet?
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A passphrase is optional. It's just a new word, of your choice, added to the end of your 12 or 24 word seedphrase.
A specific 12/24 word seedphrase is for a particular wallet. If you add a passphrase to the end of that, it's a completely different wallet. One person could have a seedphrase with 12 of the same words and another person could have those same 12 words + a passphrase and it would be a completely different wallet. Those two wallets would not be connected in any way whatsoever, even though their private key is almost exactly the same.
I have setup my passphrase to be very long and memorable, but easily reconfigurable (for me) so that if I want a completely new wallet, I just reorganize my passphrase, but still use the same seedphrase.
Example:
Let's say your 12 words are all the same:
goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat
That's one wallet
Now lets create a new wallet:
goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat goat + janfebmaraprmayjunjulaugsepoctnovdec [this last bit is your passphrase]
This is a completely different wallet and private key
This passphrase is similar to how I've done my own passphrase, but I use something else that is memorable to me. If I used the passphrase above and wanted to reorganize it, I could do something like:
febmaraprmayjunjulaugsepoctnovdecjan
or
decnovoctsepaugjuljunmayaprmarfebjan
and each of those would create ANOTHER completely different wallet/private key
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maybe it is interesting to use the goat example part as a passphrase too. You did the goat as representing the seed phrase part right? But we could use that in the passphrase too, it increases the length of the passphrase a lot while you only have to memorize the word goat and the number of times. low cost complexity added. should be always used with a more random string after it.
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Yes I guess you could
yes. like sparrow wallet for example
it is not required. it is optional.
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okay
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Bad advice.
If the passphrase is chosen by an human to be easy to remember, chances are that it will be pretty easy to bruteforce given the seed phrase, since there is no rate limits besides the computing power to create a wallet.
The entire deal about password managers we use (or should use) today is to create secure passwords because humans suck at it.
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My passphrase is >25 characters long, but very easy for me to remember because of how I've structured it.
Good luck cracking that.
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There is absolute no way with the current technology to bruteforce a 25+ character passphrase that contain no known words or meaning.
The only question is if the way you structured it undermines these assumptions.
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You cannot effectively brute force attack a passphrase, can you? You need to contact the node and to check balance each time.
In any case, this was just to pass the airport, and then you could move the funds again to a more secure and backed up passphrase.
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You cannot effectively brute force attack a passphrase, can you? You need to contact the node and to check balance each time.
Why wouldn't it be effective if you are using one or more local nodes? It is just a database after all. And i think you don't even need to contact a node if you know at least one public address of the wallet.
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I don't know. Maybe. I'm not a hacker 😅
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There are plenty of ways to make things easy to remember AND secure. Don't let someone else's fear persuade you.
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indeed, 12/24 words seeds are easy to remember and secure.
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Good tip. Though I wouldn’t recommend this for long periods of time. The amount of times I’ve forgotten my 4 digit card PIN in my life. Fine for short-term, but for most people - wouldn’t say it should be relied upon once you’ve made the trip.
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Not everyone has issues with remembering things. To each their own. Find what works for you.
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I suppose if you were suffering from amnesia you could carry something to remind you of the phrase/word, like a photograph.
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Would not suggest a photo sind a photo is often taken with a smart phone and most of these are automatically backed up to the cloud. Once your seed is in the cloud it is vulnerable to hacking since you have no idea who might have access or where they will end up.
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Now that's a good point. Important distinction.
I was thinking of a physical photo, like a kodak print. Not carrying a phone.
Physical objects, something like as simple as a piece of fruit.
Depends how your memory works and how efficiently you could use a mnemonic device.
At this moment. Time is undefeated.
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This
If its just to cross a border you can memorize it. Just make sure you really have it down. When you have arrived in a safe place, write it down again. Don't depend on your memory for longer periods of time.
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