SN Foundry- A spot for Territory Founders \ stacker news ~meta

SN Foundry- A spot for Territory Founders

2569 sats \ 73 comments \ @grayruby 18 Dec 2023 meta

@phygit @benwehrman @antic @kytt @siggy47 @niftynei @PlebLab @Book_It @needcreations_ @jimmysong @roytheholographicuniverse @birdeye21 @jeff @BitByBit21 @itsTomekK @potus @MaxAWebster @runningbitcoin @MEME_LORD @Levlion @elvismercury @brandonsbytes @Public_N_M_E @GlobalThreat @Billy_Dow @ekzyis @BitcoinOutdoors @TNStacker @Chiefmonkey @MerryOscar @davidw @Relight_Motion @nout @notgeld @kr @south_korea_ln @OneOneSeven @kdnolan @dk @k00b

Congratulations SN pioneers! I have tagged you because you are all founders of SN territories.

After some discussion with @siggy47 over the weekend, I thought it would cool if territory founders, who are so inclined, got together occasionally to discuss their territories, ideas, plans, struggles and whatever they see fit. Since we are all treading on new "territory", let's be a resource for one another.

I was thinking to make this a weekly post, where I will tag all current founders and all that wish to partake in the discussion can. If you wish to opt out of the posts please let me know. Hosting it in meta seems to make the most sense and I will donate any zaps the posts receive to the rewards pool.

We are in the wild west phase of territories with much to learn and discover! Looking forward to traversing these new lands with all of you.

Cheers, GR

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407 sats \ 12 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

Feature request:

I'm sure I'll have more as time goes on, but I would really like the ability to pin a few posts.

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 18 Dec 2023

Yes this would be great.

93 sats \ 5 replies \ @gmd 18 Dec 2023

I'm sure it's coming but subscriptions would be cool, including the ability to charge people recurring fee to subscribe to your territory.

Could be similar to reddit, where your "Home" page shows only posts from territories to which you are subscribed and "Front Page" shows most popular throughout all territories.

225 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

I'm sure subscriptions might be first, if only for the SN anti territory contingent. I can certainly see their point.

93 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 19 Dec 2023

yup front page getting a bit noisy for those who just want BTC content

99 sats \ 2 replies \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

I am all for subscribing to certain territories but personally I don't think there should be a fee. If they are happy with the content they can zap. k00b did mention eventual sub territories that the founders can charge a recurring fee for but hopefully that is a ways down the road. Let's see what territories stick before we start making subs of territories.

133 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 20 Dec 2023

Sorry for the late reply, but I agree here 100%. I don't see subscription fees.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @gmd 19 Dec 2023

It could be an option... like more exclusive communities. Possibly could also toggle to set % fees to donate to SN pool or owner or back to territory contributors.

... Or it might just overcomplicate things 🤷‍♂️ Basic subscription feature would probably be the priority for the near future.

93 sats \ 3 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Absolutely.

But we as owners need to be very careful about not pinning our own stuff for visibility or preferential treatment and/or sat funnelling. How do we get held accountable?

71 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

Maybe something like owners having to donate their own pinned sats to the rewards pool. I see a need for owners to be able to pin their own posts that has nothing to do with earning.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

I can also see a need to pin posts without it being about earning. But earning comes as a direct consequence of that post. A non-opt-outable rewards fwding for owner pinned posts might be something worth doing.

But as an example a daily discussion thread could be a useful tool to consolidate a lot of the individual posts and generate the capitol to pay the monthly fees to keep the territory going.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

Yes, for instance I would like to pin the College Bowl game pick 'em. The games are not for another two weeks and now it is far down the page so no one else is joining but if the current contest was pinned at the top of the territory I would get more participants. More participants means more interaction with the territory.

74 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 18 Dec 2023

Yes, me too. I predict we can add this within this year.

292 sats \ 22 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Sure! Sounds great!

Now, question to other territory owners. Have you seen an uptick or a downtick in engagement on content since territory inception? Eg. Have you noticed decreased engagement? Are posts being drowned out? How do you feel that could be addressed? Increase in post fees for territory? Or other means?

181 sats \ 9 replies \ @grayruby OP 18 Dec 2023

Initially an uptick but the past week I would say a bit of a downtick on the daily posts. No change really to the pick 'ems and live game chats.

I am trying to ensure I engage and zap stackers that post in the territory.

I think this is the wild west phase and there is more activity on SN than prior to territories but also a ton more content. I have missed a couple posts that I usually follow and I know a couple people mentioned to me about missing posts of mine.

It's a deluge right now but it should calm down.

154 sats \ 7 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

I've been doing the same, trying to zap every post in the territory. But some days nothing gets posted... Except Jerry's daily.

If I were to compare the Music Territory as an example to the Meta takeovers, I feel the meta takeovers got much more engagement than the same content inside a territory.

I have also oddly noticed (and I mentioned this on a different thread a week or so ago) that I'm seeing new names but also very small zaps, like 1sat zaps and things, which is great because it's probably new users! who just haven't yet become comfortable with spreading the sats about.

So I'm wondering and I'm going to use the analogy of old radio stations back in ye olde times when there was only 1 or 2 stations. Before hand you had to wait all day/week to listen to your favourite bits, now you got a dedicated station you can dip in and out of whenever. So it would seem the engagement is less consolidated perhaps?

Sorry for the long one, was kinda thinking out loud.

71 sats \ 2 replies \ @0fje0 19 Dec 2023

I feel the meta takeovers got much more engagement than the same content inside a territory.

While this may well be true (if only we could measure engagement more easily/accurately?), the cause may not be solely the introduction of territories.

For example, it's quite possible that the novelty of a particular meta takeover would have worn off over time anyway. So moving the topic to its own territory introduces just enough friction for its participants to not bother 'joining' the territory. Which is kinda what happened in my case. (I guess this makes me part of @siggy47's "anti territory contingent", although I only learned about the contingent in this thread, lol.)

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 19 Dec 2023

I think measuring engagement is always tough as it's not as cut and dry as to how many people interacted. But I think perhaps like mentioned above with the old radio stations analogy... It could be that engagement or at least interaction was much more consolidated, now with a whole territory, the interaction is more spread out.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

It's hard to gauge. To your point when I was doing meta takeover I was essentially running a territory within meta but there were no other territories competing for attention at the time.

I think it is just a deluge of content right now as territories pop up and people try to fill them. It will die down, we will have territory attrition. I have already heard from founders saying they won't continue their territories because it doesn't make sense to pay 100k sats a month to make 2k sats back in territory revenue. I expect in some cases multiple territories will combine into one (maybe health, fitness become one, or earth/outdoors become one, etc).

Within a couple months we will see which territories will have staying power and committed founders and which ones don't. I also think a couple months of data will guide k00b on how they move forward with territories, if the home page layout needs to change etc.

31 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

Good points. Once new stackers realize that miserly zaps and hoarding sats is counterproductive to earning here things will improve.

183 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

For sure, it's a very odd concept to wrap your head around. You're trying to stack sats right? So surely you'd want to keep as many as you've got no? But actually to maximise returns you gotta spread them out. It's a unique environment. I think SN is seeing people come over from Nostr where you commonly get single digit zaps or no zaps, here, if someone's taken the time to reply to me or comment on my posts, they're getting zapped, along with anything I see that I like but have nothing to contribute to with a comment.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

That's what makes this place so goddamn special

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Couldn't agree more.

71 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

My experience is similar. You brought up an excellent point about engaging and zapping visitors to your territory. I think it's a good investment that will increase engagement. I was neglecting this at first.

71 sats \ 11 replies \ @OneOneSeven 18 Dec 2023

Engagement is increasing, even without me posting, but not by much (small sample size). I'm hoping the end of this week I will have more time to get some quality posts up.

When more features get added (cross-posting and tagging, territory maps(!), pinned posts, some kind of post that is permanently editable maybe?), we'll all see much more engagement.

Keeping my post costs at 10 for now.

Just really excited in general!

157 sats \ 5 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Glad to hear you're doing well!! Keep at it!

Cross posting could be interesting, but perhaps coming at it from a Music point of view, might be tough to find other territories that the post is relevant to to cross post to. Except perhaps movies for music in movies 🤔 think I might have stumbled upon an idea for a collaboration... ~Movies @brandonsbytes ?

Oh and @grayruby I'm coming at ya for February superbowl halftime show collaboration post!

132 sats \ 4 replies \ @OneOneSeven 18 Dec 2023

Yeah I'll definitely be cross-posting between those two, my favorite music is film scores haha!

One I am eyeing for sure is ~AMA (good call there @benwehrman!), I think that's a pretty universal I figure we'll all end up collabing with.

167 sats \ 0 replies \ @benwehrman 18 Dec 2023

Thanks!

I've been scheming hard about how we can make AMA as awesome as possible. I'm confident that on top of being a great value-add for seasoned stackers, it could also be a prime on-ramp for bringing more bigger names onto SN (as I described here)

Once the Territory infrastructure is a bit more built-out, I'll be game for just cold-DMing big-name bitcoiners on Twitter, and offering that they come over and do them!

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Aside from spamming ~UFOs with "Doctor Doctor" by UFO daily I think we'll struggle to put a cross post together with each other. But never say never! 🤔

91 sats \ 1 reply \ @OneOneSeven 18 Dec 2023

Here you go!

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Did not see Blink 182 coming haha! 🤣 Well played!

127 sats \ 4 replies \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

Cross posting is interesting as long as people aren't cross posting everything everywhere. Maybe the cross posting fee needs to be 1,000 sats or something significant.

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @OneOneSeven 19 Dec 2023

Yeah I was thinking maybe the territory owner sets the price to cross post there, since it's their territory. And some sort of exponential increase might be good too. Introduces interesting choices and game theory for posters and territory owners.

Definitely should cost something significant, since more eyes will be on it once people can start moving to the territories they want and seeing only that content.

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 19 Dec 2023

Not a bad shout, want to minimise the amount of spam essentially. Don't want people putting anything tenuous into other territories. But what are your thoughts on territory collaboration posts. Eg superbowl half time thread Stacker_Sports + Music? One territory hosts the other has a Crosspost or even just a single post with a link to the main post. However works.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

How about a post about why the superbowl halftime show doesn't have bands anymore. It is always pop artists now. Although I did like the halftime show a couple years ago with Dr Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, 50 cent etc. Last years with Rihanna was awful. And Usher this year? Not interesting at all.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 19 Dec 2023

I don't see why not, my original intent was kinda just a post for people to talk about the half time show (and compare it to others) from a show/music point of view, but I can see topics coming up like that for sure. Shakira & JLo was a good one, but I agree Rihanna was dull, the hip hop/rap greats was fantastic. But as for bands, the problem is some bands aren't good either, like Coldplay. That wasn't interesting, but the wknd was entertaining. Superbowl halftime can be so hit or miss.

199 sats \ 0 replies \ @benwehrman 18 Dec 2023

Great idea! Count me in 🤝

202 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

Great idea. This could be a good place to suggest features, rant, commiserate, etc. One thing comes to mind for me right now that I'd like to discuss:

Ability to moderate, censor, remove posts.

This is a real double edged sword for me. Some of us may want the control, but I'm leaning towards not wanting that feature. Once that bell is rung, we can't unring it. We could at some point be deemed responsible for posts made in our territory. This will involve the time and expense of moderating and policing every post. I would prefer to keep it as SN is now. If you don't like something, flag it or moot the poster.

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Just hope the community votes with it's sats. I personally don't feel I have the time to moderate and police a territory. Hopefully voting with sats will keep the place ticking along on its own.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 18 Dec 2023

yep this is kinda how i am approaching things..let the market decide what content my territory curates.

Territory details are very important to help the initial filter, but yes if territories grow to become much larger then self-moderation just wont work (for me at least lol). Will need to hire ~earth interns xD

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Yeah when SN grows beyond the capability of single owners for territories, groups of moderators may become necessary.

114 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 18 Dec 2023

Agree.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @kytt 18 Dec 2023

Maybe some form of a user flag (sats still required) for posts that are not relevant to the particular territory or if it hits a certain "dislike" ratio (not sure about that one). If it hits a certain threshold, it is "removed" to the "removed" section of the territory, but is still viewable if users want to view it, leaving the higher quality posts more readily seen.

Just a thought.

40 sats \ 0 replies \ @OneOneSeven 18 Dec 2023

Sounds like a job for a Sheriff?

209 sats \ 3 replies \ @benwehrman 18 Dec 2023

Maybe we should introduce ourselves with our territories

Great idea, @ekzyis.

Hi! I'm @benwehrman, and I dropped a fairly hefty bag of sats on Territories, founding four in total: AMA, health, history, and libertarian.

My reasoning for such a large investment is three-fold:

I'm genuinely interested in all of these topics, so I'm confident in my ability to both contribute to and engage with these niches effectively
I have many years of experience moderating Reddit subs, so the opportunity to stake a claim on the LN-powered Reddit-killer is very exciting
I trust the SN team to continue killing it in building this site, thus progressing the upward trajectory of user growth/engagement, which will in turn bring real financial opportunity to being a community manager here.

...This is something Reddit moderation has always lacked; no financial incentive == no motivation to do your absolute best in building/moderating your community to help it reach its highest potential. Bitcoiners understand that financial incentive fosters more positive outcomes, and embrace this fact rather than shy away from it as Redditors do.

But I digress.

Extremely stoked to build AMA, health, history, and libertarian into the thriving SN communities I know they can be, and to continue building, collaborating, learning, and pioneering with you all!

Exciting times ahead.

-BW⚡️

104 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby OP 18 Dec 2023

Awesome to have someone with reddit sub experience to chop it up with.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @benwehrman 18 Dec 2023

🤝 Happy to answer any questions y'all have, or provide insights wherever it could be beneficial!

...Although I expect most of that experience to quickly become irrelevant, since the incentive structure here is so different (i.e. much better in every way)

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Dec 2023

Which subs do/did you moderate on reddit?

190 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 18 Dec 2023

Hey, great idea! Maybe we should introduce ourselves with our territories since currently, it's hard to tell which stacker founded which territory. I can start:

I created ~oracle because I am interested in prediction markets and then I realized I have no place to post a video about Heartbleed so I also created ~security. However, ~security is not only about security in cyber space (firewall, honeypots, penetration testing, ...) but also in meat space (social engineering, physical penetration testing, ...).

I think I forgot no territory that I created, lol

181 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 18 Dec 2023

Good idea. I created ~bitcoin_beginners, ~BooksAndArticles, and ~DogsAndCats

60 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 18 Dec 2023

However, ~security is not only about security in cyber space (firewall, honeypots, penetration testing, ...) but also in meat space (social engineering, physical penetration testing, ...).

much to share, yet so little time!

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 19 Dec 2023

Greetings Trailblazers! I created ~Photograpy because the whole 1000 words thing, etc. I think there is something about still photos that provokes thought while video can often try to shape thoughts.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 18 Dec 2023

I created ~earth for SN to have an outlet for sharing stackers' behind-the-screens action!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 18 Dec 2023

Hey, great idea! Maybe we should introduce ourselves with our territories since currently, it's hard to tell which stacker founded which territory. I can start:

I created ~Music because I was hanging out in the saloon and it was pretty much demanded 🤣 I felt why not me? Or actually, I felt I probably should after id been running the Meta Music takeovers weekly discussions around sharing music tastes and sparking discussion about what people enjoyed about certain artists.

I don't pretend to be some music guru know-it-all, just try to be honest and real and discuss different music with different people. The Music Territory grew from that idea of providing a space for people to share music with each other and discuss what they like and I hope it develops into a space where budding artists meet and find each other to work on projects together as well as a place where people come to hang out and listen to someone else's suggestion of something.

171 sats \ 0 replies \ @Car 18 Dec 2023

👏👏👏

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @benwehrman 18 Dec 2023

Who will create a "founders" territory to house all future discussions like this? 👀

(I would if I wasn't broke from founding 4 already 😅)

71 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

I thought it is just best to host the discussion on meta for now. Maybe their is a founder of a founders territory one day though. Haha.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @benwehrman 19 Dec 2023

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @notgeld 18 Dec 2023

Good idea. However I kindly ask to lower the cost for ~ru territory at least temporary to see if there are any users around.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @OneOneSeven 18 Dec 2023

Love this idea. The day after territories dropped, I was in the ER with a kidney stone and missed 3 days of work (at the worst possible time). Been trying to catch up since and haven't been as active in ~UFOs as I'd like.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

Damn. That does not sound fun.

100 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 18 Dec 2023

Awesome idea :) still putting together plans for the ~earth, early on right now it's just been observing how things grow and see what kinda content stackers gravitate towards there.

My vision is to capture the "human" side of online interaction there -- showing off what stackers are doing out among the grass and trees and cultures all around the world. Sharing stories, lessons learned, and advice along the way.

Ideally I want to incorporate some kinda weekly recurring series, similar to Meme mondays, fun fact fridays, etc. But not sure what angle I wanna take that still feels conducive to the overall SN discussion

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

Good plan. I think a "see how things evolve" and what content people are interested in is a good plan for the first couple months.

233 sats \ 1 reply \ @antic 18 Dec 2023

Hi, I'm the founder of ~art and ~funny because even though I spend way too much time obsessing about ~economics, ~bitcoin, running a ~lightning node, ~programming, and all the other things, I want to spend more time making art and laughing.

My territories feel nascent at this stage. I'm mostly waiting for more development that drives these toward the path of overtaking Reddit. Even though SN was designed to work initially like HN but with sats, I think there's a bigger opportunity to take over Reddit entirely. The are a few things missing that I think would be huge (in no particular order):

a search bar for territories like reddit has for subs (so as more territories get created, they can be less burdensome on the dropdown
fixing the referral bugs (I've had quite a few people sign up on my referral but not get associated or gifted sats)
The ability for users to subscribe to territories, not just users (and to tailor their home page with subscribed territories only) -- this would create a 4th main nav point for global or something like that, which would do what the current home page does
The ability to upload videos--or embed a video tag pointing to an IPFS hosted video :)
image thumbnails in home screen view if content has an image associated with it
Minor one: longer titles... I mean some jokes really need a bit of title setup before the body punchline like this: Title: Future generations will think "Baby It's Cold Outside" is a really weird song and we'll have to explain that it was a product of its time" Body: because it used to get cold outside.
The ability to add sub-moderators and to moderate content in territories

and a crazy idea:

private territories / invite only (an extreme level of moderation) where territories could be entirely locked for engagement and/or where content could be hidden to non-members (and membership might be fee based to the founder or applied to a private territory reward pool). This idea could replace my private Slack instance with friends and we would just zap sats to each other on this platform and have better threaded conversations (slack is not good at threading below one level).

Ultimately, if this site keeps adding features, it could take over a lot of other things.

192 sats \ 0 replies \ @benwehrman 18 Dec 2023

Tons of great ideas here 🔥 And completely agree that swallowing Reddit is the endgame. I've been a hardcore Redditor my entire life, so the opportunity to supplant it with a Bitcoin-powered upgrade gets me infinitely hyped.

The ability for users to subscribe to territories, not just users (and to tailor their home page with subscribed territories only)

Absolutely. I know this is in the roadmap for the SN team, but this should be at the very top of the list IMO. Will provide a much-needed boost to Territory participation and usability for everyone on SN.

Minor one: longer titles

Agree that the small title length is rough for certain topics; it'd be cool if that were editable by the founder.

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @MaxAWebster 18 Dec 2023

Cool idea!

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 18 Dec 2023

love it, great idea

50 sats \ 2 replies \ @GlobalThreat 19 Dec 2023

i'm not going to renew. its not worth. cost me $42/month and i make like 15 cents a month.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby OP 19 Dec 2023

I understand this position. Is there another territory maybe that yours could combine with? Maybe you could make a deal with another founder, join the two and share the cost.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @GlobalThreat 19 Dec 2023

naah. if he lowers the price. I'd be willing to pay $10/month tops.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @kdnolan 19 Dec 2023

It would be cool to do a nostrnests.com stream with everyone 🙃

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mo 23 Dec 2023

Just started the ~Agora territory! Any thoughts? Feedback? Suggestions?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jeff 19 Dec 2023

Feature request:

#1 A way to hit an endpoint with the context of a new post in your territory, and return a custom fee split based on the response. SN uses this for the life of the post.

#2 A way to hit an endpoint with the context of a new tip, and return a custom fee split for the individual zap. SN uses this for the individual zap only.

Ie, I could make a serverless function, that gets context doc, then run my own logic, and return a json blob with Stacker user handles and weights or absolute amounts.