141 sats \ 21 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May \ parent \ on: Stacker Saloon
This was one of the points I made about MSM, too.
Day-to-day, any of us can have top comments, or even posts, and get some decent rewards for that.
However, over the course of an entire month almost all of the top posts will be from the same authors and the rest of us get our contributions minimized.
Fully agree. I'm not as strongly opiniated as @DarthCoin, but i follow his opinion that MSM favours gaming the system (he would say it's rigged) more than the daily reward system.
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I think that's right, but it's not even a matter of gaming.
I don't think @Natalia or @davidw are gaming anything, they just both make really high-quality posts that most of us are not going to match.
Over the course of a month, the top posts are almost guaranteed to be theirs (and a few other people's), but on any given day the rest of us can manage to get in there.
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For sure, they are providing good content. But color me cynical, the content is created to match the expectations of the system. Similar to what you can see on the For You page of Twitter. Always the same accounts that draw the most attention.
I do like hackernews, because of the fact it is not like that. A few users do not control the content. Each day, another OP and another commenter gets top position because they deserve it based on their specific knowledge. A guy who used to work with Bram Moolenaar posting some interesting anecdotes about VIM right after his death, etc. In the long run, I'd like SN to be the same. I don't want to read every day about the same digital nomad's adventures in Bali, I want to hear every day from someone different and why their input is unique and better than others. And the next day, it'll be someone different again.
But yeah, gaming the system, it isn't. That was a bit strong from me. I'd just like the system to fit my expectations of SN rather than SN decide what my expectations should be because that's what a regression to the mean decides it is over a single month.
Yet, all of this is silly ranting from me. MSM still allows for good, unique and varied content to happen. I'm just afraid it'll keep those occasional contributors from contributing if the rewards aren't there.
Even though it's not about the money (i break even in both scenarios) the daily boost just feels nice.
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Worth keeping in mind that HN has probably two orders of magnitude more users than SN does, and it's hard to know what SN would look like, or operate like, under those conditions. Hope to find out eventually, tho :)
Related: I've been on HN for a decade or more, and I literally couldn't name a single other user. Very different feel from here, different paradigm of interaction. One of the most interesting things to me is exploring these differences.
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Exactly right. My experience.
Curious too about SN in 100x regime ;)
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I would personally much rather see SN in a 2x regime, where the new people are of similar quality to our current stackers.
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If it's any comfort, that seems the much more likely growth path, given the frictions involved. Which means that people around now, and the culture unfolding now, will likely be way more consequential than it would be in other places.
Which is both something to celebrate and something to fear. Massive leverage on SN to Be The Change.
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I expect this growth path as well. @k00b mentioned wanting SN to stay sort of fringe for the near future, on the last SNL.
It's a lot like weeding a garden. If we don't let undesirables get a foothold, then they won't takeover.
A few users do not control the content. Each day, another OP and another commenter gets top position because they deserve it based on their specific knowledge.
Their reputation system probably operates like ours, so I'd guess the diversity of OPs is mostly a function of their size.
I spend hours in
recent most days looking for new OPs that have something worthwhile to say/share that might've been missed. We just aren't attracting enough people to have many effortful randos yet. We'll get one every week or so though.We have a lot of backpressure on growth (participating costs something and the UX of bitcoin), so we some figuring out to do to get there.
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Some of that might change just by attracting more regular stackers and having more people be aware of Stacker News as a place to bring their knowledge.
For reference, the AMA's are usually the top post of the day, when they happen. That seems to indicate that there's plenty of demand for a diversity of voices and perspectives, as well as that SN can elevate one-off contributions when they have merit.
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Very true. AMAs are perfect counter examples to my rant. Good content gets seen, regardless of the specifics of the reward system on a given month.
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Btw, nothing personal against the two @s you gave. Even though i somehow don't see much of their content, i know from the few things I've seen they put in the POW and are deserving of the sats.
SN has not yet attracted the varied crowd of people that roam on HN, so I'm very grateful a few people do the hard work of making good content to keep SN engaging.
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Agree with @south_korea_ln. The data and insights are there for us all to see. Spend more time on your posts and you will be richly rewarded.
Thinking or concluding that there is favouritism or bias is disingenuous to how SN works. If someone puts more POW in than those currently well regarded, they will pick-up the lions share of sats.
Also, you can tell instantly if someone has put time into their posts. During MSM I posted many short & long-form content and it was the long-form that performed insanely better. And that was during one of my busiest times at work. I’ve been as guilty as anyone of over thinking it. It’s actually supremely simple.
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Stacker News does have systemic favoritism, though. Those who produce content that meets the tastes of the highest trust stackers will get more rewards than others.
That’s not even a bad thing, and over time it balances out, but it could seem unfair to some people in the moment.
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Top posts are certainly not guaranteed though. That's the thing.
Yes you get a headstart by building a decent reputation and it is easier to rank higher with a decent trust score than as a newbie, but you need to maintain and sustain those expectations also if you want to retain eyeballs. I don't take that for granted at all. Someone else will soon put in far more time to their posts than I and others. That's inevitable.
I am willing to bet the average stacker spends 3-4 minutes on any post on the site. Unless a link/resource is really compelling me to share, I will very rarely post something without 3-4 hours of work. And in those best performing posts, it is more like 3-4 days of effort. This is lost if you believe that 'systemic favouritism' is the reason for handsome rewards.
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Yes you get a headstart by building a decent reputation
That's the key point that I think a lot of the new people don't get yet. We all started from 0 and worked our way to wherever we are now. You built whatever current headstart you have now by putting in the work before you had it.
It's a very fluid environment and the global trust score is dynamic.
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In short, laziness is what's stopping me.
However, I don't want to imply that my posts would at your level, even if I really applied myself.
Once I get some writing projects done at work, I might be freed up to make more of an investment in my writing at SN.
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One of my goals on SN is to make contributing here more worthwhile for people. That's why I zap so much and make so many comments.
In my experience, people tend to get more value out of being heard than out of hearing.
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That's quite an interesting but unusual observation. One is usually taught to listen than to talk. It resonates with me though at some level. In Korea, many do not tend to speak up or give their opinion, especially when in a hierarchical setting.
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